Hi all, I have always wondered if different edge lettering on coins, in particular merchant tokens, are considered to be separate types or simply varieties. I personally have always considered them to be varieties, and most pages have them listed together. Thank you
Kenny
- Verifying your Asian and British-territorial coins everyday with the best quality photos and the best information.
Due to the nature of edges being easy to overlook especially in many of my holders I can't even see them most of the time, any edge variant is no reason for any new catalog page to me (Numista and many a variant fetishist see's it differently).
Numista separating pages on the ground of edges just leads to page clones that you can not easily discern (because most people don't create the title right and don't add special features for fast recognition) and you have to open them all up and search for a reason why there might be multiple identical entries. Heck we can't even filter on the grounds of edges features in the catalog (making it even a less reasonable ground for separate pages).
Example from guidelines shows Hong Kong coins with: “reeded edge” and “security edge” which is reasonable to have two different pages as this security feature was the main reason of the change.
However, difference on edge lettering are rather a “small” difference, I guess. In any case, this will be probably both with the same edge type: plain (with inscription).
I had the similar issue for some ½ Crown from Gibraltar (CuNi after 2015). Most of them are reeded with plain sections. Some of them have numbering on bottom plain section. We put these as a year variant only, because type of edge is still the same, just numbers on limited part of the coins.
See this post requesting splitting pages with different edges and the Catalogue administrator's reason for rejecting it, “Please do not split yet, there is ongoing discussion.” The discussion is about revising the guidelines.
Due to the nature of edges being easy to overlook especially in many of my holders I can't even see them most of the time, any edge variant is no reason for any new catalog page to me (Numista and many a variant fetishist see's it differently).
Numista separating pages on the ground of edges just leads to page clones that you can not easily discern (because most people don't create the title right and don't add special features for fast recognition) and you have to open them all up and search for a reason why there might be multiple identical entries. Heck we can't even filter on the grounds of edges features in the catalog (making it even a less reasonable ground for separate pages).
Fully agree! +1
Coin referee for: Andorra, Equatorial Guinea, Marshall Islands, Moldova, Liberia and Spain
Banknote referee for: Andorra, Equatorial Guinea and Spain
On title is included “lettering”, so I guess some of the answers are not about the question asked.
Of course different edges need different pages, unless the difference is a mint error (reeded vs plain, or lettered vs plain by mistake).
But on the subject of this thread (about lettering), I think there are 3 main cases:
1) Lettering is different: mean if the phrase, letters, etc. have different meaning, then should be split pages. Example: Presidential and Sacawagea U. S. Dollars that have different mint letter and/or year on edge.
2) Lettering has variations: if there is some difference, that does not affect the phrase, included misspelling, they should be considered as variants, and split variety lines, in the same page.
3) Orientation of lettering: In the case the lettering be exactly the same, but inverted, (readable with obverse up vs. readable with reverse up) may be considered as a variety (or not), again may be listed in different variety lines in same page.
Just 10 options: you understand binary, or you don't.
Catalog Referee Coins, Banknotes & Exonumia: Uruguay, Cuba, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Mexico, Peru, Paraguay, Costa Rica, Venezuela, Panama, Ecuador, Zamunda, Parva Domus and more.
Of course different edges need different pages, unless the difference is a mint error (reeded vs plain, or lettered vs plain by mistake).
But on the subject of this thread (about lettering), I think there are 3 main cases:
1) Lettering is different: mean if the phrase, letters, etc. have different meaning, then should be split pages. Example: Presidential and Sacawagea U. S. Dollars that have different mint letter and/or year on edge.
Yes, it's true, Numista's guidelines state that different edge types indicate different coin types, and therefore the pages should be split. While this isn't the main topic of this thread, I believe many users have expressed their disagreement, and it's an issue that should at least be reconsidered.
Regarding the edge legend and your first point, I'm not sure I understand correctly, but are you suggesting that, for example, this coin should be splited into three (edges with D, P, and S)?
Regarding the edge legend and your first point, I'm not sure I understand correctly, but are you suggesting that, for example, this coin should be splited into three (edges with D, P, and S)?
If you're really suggesting this, I think it would be one of the biggest mistakes in the Numista catalog.
This question wasn't addressed at me, but the situation is clearly handled in the Guidelines on coin types:
The same type may include:
Different dates, mints, officinae, mint officials, mintmarks, and engraver’s marks
There are situations where catalogs split types based on mints, mint officials, or mintmarks and there are probably cases in Numista where those catalogs were followed to create separate pages. (And there are situations where other differences in the coins produced by different mints justify the split – as is mentioned in the Guidelines.)
Of course different edges need different pages, unless the difference is a mint error (reeded vs plain, or lettered vs plain by mistake).
But on the subject of this thread (about lettering), I think there are 3 main cases:
1) Lettering is different: mean if the phrase, letters, etc. have different meaning, then should be split pages. Example: Presidential and Sacawagea U. S. Dollars that have different mint letter and/or year on edge.
Yes, it's true, Numista's guidelines state that different edge types indicate different coin types, and therefore the pages should be split. While this isn't the main topic of this thread, I believe many users have expressed their disagreement, and it's an issue that should at least be reconsidered.
Regarding the edge legend and your first point, I'm not sure I understand correctly, but are you suggesting that, for example, this coin should be splited into three (edges with D, P, and S)?
If you're really suggesting this, I think it would be one of the biggest mistakes in the Numista catalog.
My native language is not English, and I never lived in an English-speakers country, so maybe sometimes it gets a bit hard to me to express correctly.
About the first point you discuss, I still think different edges need to be split, since they are different designs introduced on purpose to make them different. As example, at Argentina there are some standard circulating coins that also have a collector's version; instead of plain edge on circulating version the commemorative have reeded edge, and usually they are in a cardboard.
Regarding your 2nd. concern, "Regarding the edge legend and your first point, I'm not sure I understand correctly, but are you suggesting that, for example, this coin should be splited into three (edges with D, P, and S)? N#464888" No, I think they need to be in the same page, as different varieties, since this is not a modification to make different coins, but just was needed to make the changes for being different mints and/or years. Is the same case as if mint and year were on obverse or reverse, they are just varieties.
Hope now I was able to word it clearly.
Just 10 options: you understand binary, or you don't.
Catalog Referee Coins, Banknotes & Exonumia: Uruguay, Cuba, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Mexico, Peru, Paraguay, Costa Rica, Venezuela, Panama, Ecuador, Zamunda, Parva Domus and more.
Regarding your 2nd. concern, "Regarding the edge legend and your first point, I'm not sure I understand correctly, but are you suggesting that, for example, this coin should be splited into three (edges with D, P, and S)? N#464888" No, I think they need to be in the same page, as different varieties, since this is not a modification to make different coins, but just was needed to make the changes for being different mints and/or years. Is the same case as if mint and year were on obverse or reverse, they are just varieties.
Hope now I was able to word it clearly.
Don't worry, English isn't my first language either, that's why I asked, in case I hadn't understood correctly. Seeing your answer, I think we're on the same page then.
Merry Christmas!!!
Coin referee for: Andorra, Equatorial Guinea, Marshall Islands, Moldova, Liberia and Spain
Banknote referee for: Andorra, Equatorial Guinea and Spain
Don't worry, English isn't my first language either, that's why I asked, in case I hadn't understood correctly. Seeing your answer, I think we're on the same page then.
Merry Christmas!!!
Entonces, por qué no hablamos en español y nos dejamos de vueltas?? 🤣
Feliz Navidad!!! 🍾🎄🎆🎇
Just 10 options: you understand binary, or you don't.
Catalog Referee Coins, Banknotes & Exonumia: Uruguay, Cuba, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Mexico, Peru, Paraguay, Costa Rica, Venezuela, Panama, Ecuador, Zamunda, Parva Domus and more.
While this isn't the main topic of this thread, I believe many users have expressed their disagreement, and it's an issue that should at least be reconsidered.
If you read my post above you'd realize that it is being reconsidered.
While this isn't the main topic of this thread, I believe many users have expressed their disagreement, and it's an issue that should at least be reconsidered.
If you read my post above you'd realize that it is being reconsidered.
You're right, sometimes I make the mistake of not reading all the posts, and then I miss out on information. Thank you so much!
Coin referee for: Andorra, Equatorial Guinea, Marshall Islands, Moldova, Liberia and Spain
Banknote referee for: Andorra, Equatorial Guinea and Spain
Don't worry, English isn't my first language either, that's why I asked, in case I hadn't understood correctly. Seeing your answer, I think we're on the same page then.
Merry Christmas!!!
Entonces, por qué no hablamos en español y nos dejamos de vueltas?? 🤣
Feliz Navidad!!! 🍾🎄🎆🎇
Pues tienes toda la razón, hehehehe. Feliz Navidad (un día tarde) y muy buena entrada de Año Nuevo!!! 😊
Coin referee for: Andorra, Equatorial Guinea, Marshall Islands, Moldova, Liberia and Spain
Banknote referee for: Andorra, Equatorial Guinea and Spain
