Canada 50¢ non-circulating since 1990? [επιλυμένο]

Hello,

I just noticed that several business strike/circulating Canadian 50¢ coins are said to be "non-circulating":

https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces441.html (1990-1996)
https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces442.html (1992)
https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces443.html (1997-2000)
https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces444.html (2001 circulating; not 2003: see below)
https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces446.html (1952-2002 is circulating)

Although very few of them are seen in circulation, they are "circulating" just as the 1968-1989 coins:

https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces305.html

Charlton catalogue, volume 1, 2015, p. 195: "With the exception of the Coronation Commemorative issue of 1952-2002, no fifty cent coins were issued for circulation in the years 2002-2005. These dates are only found in collector sets ..." [this implies that they are "circulating" down to 2001].

There is some confusion in the Charlton about the year 2005, because they then write on p. 196, note 1: "No fifty cent coins were issued through the Banks for circulation in the years 2005-2014. They are available only from rolls or sets sold by the Numismatic Department of the Royal Canadian Mint."

Looking at the listing, 2005 to 2014 (and presumably to 2017) are circulating, though available only in rolls from the mint. So, this page:

https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces5809.html

should be changed to circulating since Charlton says for each of the years 2005-2014 "From Mint rolls" (repeated on each line). Of course, each of these coins is also found in sets, i.e. "non-circulating", but when both circulating and non-circulating versions exist for a type, they have to be listed as circulating.

EDIT (May 25th): I have just sent suggested changes for each individual page.

EDIT 2 (same day!): Thanks, anonymous Numista referee, for your quick action!

I'm sorry but I think you are making a mistake.
There is not any confusion in the Charlton catalogue, it has FACTS that are true for the years they are listed under. By you adding any implications and shifting years, you are twisting the facts and creating inaccurate listings here on Numista. All of those rolls that you want to tear open to have them circulate were sold at a premium to collectors. None left the mint at face value to "circulate".

Απόσπασμα: "Beekeeper"​I'm sorry but I think you are making a mistake.
​There is not any confusion in the Charlton catalogue, it has FACTS that are true for the years they are listed under. By you adding any implications and shifting years, you are twisting the facts and creating inaccurate listings here on Numista. All of those rolls that you want to tear open to have them circulate were sold at a premium to collectors. None left the mint at face value to "circulate".

​I have cited my source, please cite yours. I have both the 2010 and 2015 Charlton catalogues. If I were using the more ancient catalogue (2010), I would agree with you, but the 2015 one says what I have quoted above.

There is confusion as I have explained it with regard to the year 2005, and they have deleted lines in the 2015 edition which were in the 2010 catalogue, p. 177. If that problem was fixed in the 2016 and 2017 editions, please let us know.

Απόσπασμα: "Camerinvs"​
​
​Charlton catalogue, volume 1, 2015, p. 195: "With the exception of the Coronation Commemorative issue of 1952-2002, no fifty cent coins were issued for circulation in the years 2002-2005. These dates are only found in collector sets ..." [this implies that they are "circulating" down to 2001].
​
​There is some confusion in the Charlton about the year 2005, because they then write on p. 196, note 1: "No fifty cent coins were issued through the Banks for circulation in the years 2005-2014. They are available only from rolls or sets sold by the Numismatic Department of the Royal Canadian Mint."
​
​

​I have left the part that you have quoted and seem to be confused about. These are facts, NO circulation fifty cent coins issued. As soon as you imply anything you are twisting facts.

Απόσπασμα: "Beekeeper"​

Απόσπασμα: "Camerinvs"​
​​
​​Charlton catalogue, volume 1, 2015, p. 195: "With the exception of the Coronation Commemorative issue of 1952-2002, no fifty cent coins were issued for circulation in the years 2002-2005. These dates are only found in collector sets ..." [this implies that they are "circulating" down to 2001].
​​
​​There is some confusion in the Charlton about the year 2005, because they then write on p. 196, note 1: "No fifty cent coins were issued through the Banks for circulation in the years 2005-2014. They are available only from rolls or sets sold by the Numismatic Department of the Royal Canadian Mint."​

​​I have left the part that you have quoted and seem to be confused about. These are facts, NO circulation fifty cent coins issued. As soon as you imply anything you are twisting facts.

​And you are implying that they are non-circulating and, therefore, you are twisting the facts. It is not because they are not available through the banks that they are not circulating from a legal (even if only technical) point of view. Look at this page from the RCM:

http://www.mint.ca/store/mint/about-the-mint/50-cents-5300012#.WSzRyca1uUk

Look near the top, you'll find this:



If you disagree with the Mint, please tell them, not me.

Ok, I'm wrong. I still believe Charlton is correct and factual and will continue to use mine. Just my 2 cents.
Edit
Thanks for the mint link, I believe I have found the source of your confusion. You are mistaking the circulation strike finish as an actual circulation coin. Here is a photo of the pertinent part of my 2010 Charlton 'How to use this catalogue" section located on page xiv.

Απόσπασμα: "Beekeeper"​Ok, I'm wrong. I still believe Charlton is correct and factual and will continue to use mine. Just my 2 cents.

​Yes, I agree, Charlton is correct and, therefore, I didn't appreciate your accusations that I was "adding implications" and "twisting the facts and creating inaccurate listings here on Numista".

Απόσπασμα: "Beekeeper"​Ok, I'm wrong. I still believe Charlton is correct and factual and will continue to use mine. Just my 2 cents.
​Edit
​Thanks for the mint link, I believe I have found the source of your confusion. You are mistaking the circulation strike finish as an actual circulation coin. Here is a photo of the pertinent part of my 2010 Charlton 'How to use this catalogue" section located on page xiv.
​
​

​I see that you edited your post, and you still accuse me of being confused?? I'm sorry, but this is amazingly arrogant! Why do you think those lines were removed from the 2015 catalogue?

The government sanctions the legal tender status of coinage, but the Mint has control over most coins' circulating or non-circulating status, even if it is only a technicality. If they consider the 50¢ non-circulating, well then, provide evidence. Perhaps it is to be found in the Mint's annual reports, I don't know, but those reports are downloadable from their site. You are confusing whether coins actually circulate with the technical status circulating/non-circulating. The banks can refuse payments in non-circulating coins such as the $20 Superman coins. Can they legally refuse a 2016 50¢ piece? If you believe so, then provide evidence.

EDIT: Oh -- I see, those lines are from page xiv, not specifically about the 50¢ coins, but the technical difference between circulating and non-circulating remains:



EDIT 2: This is from the 2016 Annual Report:

seems like there's a lot of pride in this question..chill guys, and enoy the sun!

Απόσπασμα: "ngdawa"​seems like there's a lot of pride in this question..chill guys, and enjoy the sun!

​Thanks for trying to chill things out, ngdawa, but this is not about pride. Anyone who is falsely accused of "twisting the facts" ought to defend him- or herself. This is a serious accusation, especially on a public forum.

Part of my job in the past three years has been to detect fabrication of data, so I will not take any accusation about my handling of the facts lightly. If anyone, including myself, is wrong about something, there is no reason to frame it in terms of accusations. I have presented my position with evidence from Charlton and even the Mint. Anyone who disagrees need only present stronger and more reliable evidence.