Arabic script on a Hungarian coin? - Arabic natives: opinion?

7 αναρτήσεις
Hello there,

I am looking for some opinions on a coin I am struggling with.
This is a well documented piece of "King Béla, the third" of Hungary, most literature agrees that the obverse is a "kufic nonsense ornament", but I tend to see "Malik Bela" in the script, which stands for "King Béla" in Arabic.

Is this only because I want to see this or can you also decode it this way?
Any opinions very welcome!

Here it is: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces49229.html

Thanks a lot
Well, he ruled in time of 3rd crusade, his soldiers and his own brother Géza accompanied Frederick Barbarossa in the campaign. There were feuds between brothers (Gźa was imprisoned prior to crusade) and Géza remained in Holy Land afterwards and never returned to Hungary.

I believe it could originate in this context (maybe in Holy Land itself?)

Another lead is islam in the old Magyar tribes. Let's follow wiki leads:

1. Islam in early Hungary 10th-13th century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Hungary
2. Böszörmény - Magyar muslims https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%B6sz%C3%B6rm%C3%A9ny

There are sevaral theories of from where they came:
Either Volga-Bulgaria: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volga_Bulgaria
These would do: https://www.google.cz/search?q=Volga+Bulgaria+coin&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=894&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjqjrLV5NvRAhWka5oKHSoyDSUQsAQIGA

Or Kwahrezm - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khwarezm
Coins: https://www.google.cz/search?q=Volga+Bulgaria+coin&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=894&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjqjrLV5NvRAhWka5oKHSoyDSUQsAQIGA#tbm=isch&q=Khwarezm+coin

Or third theory: They formed from Kabars, Khazar tribes who joined Magyars in 9th century.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabar
And here is their script, which was found in 20th century Transylvania.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Als%C3%B3szentmih%C3%A1ly_inscription

I would have asked Simoneo what he thinks about the script. I am have quite limited knowledge about these.

And I would probably disagree with Hungarian numismatists. Let's not leave ourselves blinded by nationalism, we have been there.
Catalogue administrator
Cannot read anything
malik bela would be ملك بيلا

can you draw the letters on the coin pic and post it?
Catalog Master Referee & Referee for UAE
https://www.instagram.com/amer.coins
Amer Salmeh
RE: Jarczek
Thanks, Jarcek, very thorough research.
All of the things you have linked and some more arguements made me think it might actually be a conscious choice for a Hungarian king.
The contra opinions are not really stemming from Hungarian nationalism (we have too much of that shit, though :x), but rather on the commonly accepted opinion that the Church would not have let such a thing happen in the time of Crusades. Having said that; Hungarians were still "opportunity Catholics" in the 12th century, not really true believers... so... I don't know.

RE:AmerSalmeh
Yes, exactly that is what I tend to decode in the coin's obverse in two lines:
ملك
بيلا
... then ornaments in the lettering around.

Thanks you, guys, you're great!
Just to make sure I was clear, what I said is: I can NOT read anything Arabic on the coin!

2nd thought, I can read, English! and not in the centre but on the surroundings!
Something similar to https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces50692.html maybe!

3rd thought, this: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces33693.html might have something readable
not clear, but I guess makes more sense than the one you listed originally
Catalog Master Referee & Referee for UAE
https://www.instagram.com/amer.coins
Amer Salmeh
Απόσπασμα: "AmerSalmeh"​Just to make sure I was clear, what I said is: I can NOT read anything Arabic on the coin!



​I understand :) - yes the second coin you listed is clearly Arabic imitation
Another thing crossed my mind: present in Hungary at the time - as refugees (some local words are only remnants now)

Proto- Turkic languange and islam: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pechenegs
Catalogue administrator

» Πολιτική φόρουμ

Η ζώνη ώρας που χρησιμοποιείται είναι η UTC+2:00.
Η ώρα είναι 19:18.