Greetings to sharper minds!
I have 2 of these coins; 1-unc, 1-circulated. Both Denver Mint business strikes. The best web page I could find listed this as: ODV-002, RDV-001. They exist, but I've found no info on mintage numbers etc. You need a loupe of 15X or so to identify the reverse, with the obverse rather obvious. I'm told none of the Big Four grading companies currently recognize this variety. I don't grade coins for my private collection anyway. Dies must have been mixed up or miss-paired for this coin to have been minted at all. I plan on keeping my 2 w/my other coins: they match perfectly what I collect, which is anything odd/different that I like. Anyone else have one? Or perhaps direction to info? Thanks in advance, Rob.
Nobody? Kenny? Matt?
PS- I heard it's in the latest Cherry-Picker Guide, but the real mystery is how a Philly ('64) reverse die 001 end up in Denver to mint '64 Business Strikes?!
PPS- I never did hear from a US half dollar expert; I've sent the two VERY, VERY, rare specimens to a friend in Ohio who will know just what to do w/them! I DID hear from one extremely knowledgeable Expert on the Numista Team, who advised me these are the scarcest '64 Kennedy Business Strikes EVER Minted. In fact, they in theory couldn't have been minted at all! So, does that sound like to you (it does to me!) an employee or two getting together a few to pay for a NICE school for their kids? Of course, for that BAD thought to work, a limited number would HAVE to be released into general circulation. If your child(ren) were pre-teen in '64, 10-15 years down the road you could make a few bucks! Perhaps that's the reason not a single 1 of the BIG FOUR grading Companies will recognize this easy to see variety? Secret Service started out NOT protecting our President (they come & go), but protecting our fledgling Country's money! Hhmmm...Rob.
I guess, that this is not a recognised variety yet! I should imagine that after a while people will start to seek these once it has been recognised. The mint will have to comment at some point! Thanks for your message. And I'm sure other members will start to ask you about this type of coin.
I actually just got one of this Kennedy coins today while I was coin roll hunting. Any new updates on this coin. The internet seems to still have not much about this coin. I must say I have been hunting all day and yet to dig up anything on how many was made :/
I agree bam777 as I have never came across this before the one I found yesterday. I'm having mine graded today for condition. I shall ask the coin shop owner how to go about this as well. Hmmm we could be onto something here guys. Mine is exactly like the one described above.... 3 stars with broken rays to the right of the eagle, and no horizontal serif on the G in the "FG". Also a Denver mint strike. The front appears to be the post accented hair or ODV-002, interesting indeed. Ty guys - this has proven to be an interesting hunt indeed.
The funny thing is that the 1964 Kennedy Half Dollar page on Numista uses a transitional variety half dollar as the sample picture of the half dollar... Just click on the images to see:
I can't work out if it is a Philadelphia proof or business strike though. Has anyone heard of a transitional variety business strike from Philadelphia? I know that you can get transitional proof P's and I have a transitional D.
Happy New Year to all!
Guys, I personally have had 3, all Denver.
I gave 2 (1-unc & 1-circ) to my friend in Ohio.
I gave a half-way decent one to Bam - he could at least see all important details.
I've written to the US Mint, with no response.
I've heard from my coin-shop owner/friend he's seen one shown to a Mint Official (at the Long Beach CS) - yet the official denied its existence even while holding it; also a Denver strike.
I've never seen one from Philly.
None of the "Big Four TPG's" will acknowledge or label a slab as transitional.
Fishy? Yep!
If I find another, I'll mail it to somebody in this thread.
Take care, Rob.
I just got back from my coin dealer and had my 64 transitional graded, he said he has never seen or even heard of this type coin " as expected "... anyway he gave me the info to ANACS for me to contact them on this and said they tend to take odd things like this on and try to bring them to light. I suggest we all do the same. I feel if we bombard them enough then they will have no choice but to recognize this as a super rare coin variation. Good luck to us all. Also I would like information on how to contact the Denver mint and any others who denied this coin. If we work together we could blow this out of the water. My next step is to contact coin world and see if they can somehow help us.
I just asked because I've got both a 1964 and 1965 kennedy half, is the '64 a "transitional" half because it's the new design but still 90% silver? how can we tell the variations?
Hey guys just got back from my other dealer... he's curious as to if what we have are fakes???? I highly have to doubt this as none have sold for big money... yet. Anyway it got my wheels turning so I dropped it on my digital scales "that are spot on" and I got a reading of 12.7. From further research I learned that a .2 difference was accepted by the U.S. mint for silver Hals from 1941 up to 1964... so what are yours weighing in at? The dealer also told me to send it in to one of the BIG FOUR, would I be wasting my time and money at this point?
I also called ANACS and they told me that if it is truly in the cherry pickers guide that they see no reason as to why they would not recognize my coin and validate it. Can somebody Asher me somehow that it is before I dish out the 60$?
Could we possibly have the "special strike" variety. I was digging around and there are only 12 known and one sold in auction for 16,100.00 in 2010. Take a close look at the pictures on the site. It has no mentioned mark, but that's the only difference to what we have. "G" error, as well as 5 broken rays of light. 3 under unum and 2 above... http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/6844?redir=t
Greeting gentlemen,
As Bam777 can attest to, I've done enormous amounts of diligent research on this coin.
I've come to several conclusions; mostly in the realm of sanity, though conspiracy theories abound.
First, no way & no how are you going to "force" the US Treasury/Mint to recognize this variety.
Only one civilian has ever had their way with our Mint concerning design, the coin itself etc.
We'll get to that person shortly.
After intense & methodical research for 1-2yrs straight, & 1-2yrs off/on, here are my conclusions:
1)After JFK's assassination in late Nov. of '63, warp-speed was attained designing a commemorative.
2)For the 1st time in our Mint's history, a civilian (Jackie-O) was consulted during the design process.
3)Jackie-O gave her approval, but she demanded the commemorative be a Half-Dollar.
4)She gave as her reason, her late husband & President was not to supplant Washington on our Quarter.
5)Congress gave the OK, & both Proof/Business strikes began in early 1964.
6)Philly was to strike proof coins, & Denver would handle business strikes. All was well...
7)At some point in '64, Jackie-O decided she no longer cared for the design of JFK's hair on proof coins.
8)Now, for only the 2nd time in US Mint history, a civilian's wishes were granted; w/re-designed hair.
9)Hence: Accented Hair variety & New (normal) Hair variety.
10)The pairing of Denver die ODV-OO2 & Philly die RDV-OO1 is real; they exist, ergo they're real coins.
11)That this "In-between" coin exists, but is not acknowledged by the Mint or any of the big 4 TPG's
misses the point altogether - who cares if Uncle Sam & his minions deny the coins were minted???
12)The real question that needs answering & explaining in complete "transparency" is this one:
13)How, why, when, & what for was Philly die RDV-OO1 mated with Denver die ODV-OO2?
How, and why, did Philly reverse dies end up in Denver? With only an Official "No!" they weren't there!
One more time: HOW DID PHILLY REVERSE DIES END UP IN DENVER STRIKING COINS?
You guys chew on that, I'll keep it simmering on a back burner for now!
Respectfully, Rob.
I think this member is using two accounts for some reason. or working together to make someone believe they have valuable coins that do not actually exist.
Do you have photos? Or just a bunch of chatter?
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!
Yes I have proof photos of my coin. This is not a hoax, this is a legitimate coin that could end up as the rarest ever 64 Kennedy coin. ANACS has already told me they are willing to validate mine if I send it in, after I explained to them what I had and said it was published in the latest cherry pickers guide
OK here is my coin... on the front you can see it does not have any of the accented hair errors, yet on the reverse it has the 5 broken rays as well as the error G in 'FG'... The back contains all the tell-tale errors of the accented hair. Making this an authentic ODV-002, RDV-001 yet the rear is from the Denver mint.
You can clearly see that the oxidation matches perfectly. Yes you see less detail in the coin but that's due to my cell phone camera. How would I even gain from posting hoax pictures... you can rest assure I have much better ways to spend my time lol.
"Morning Bam777,
'Member when I 1st found some of these (6-8 total) at my friends pawn shop, mixed in with all the other 90%. I just looked, & I posted a thread 12/10/2013. After that, I told my other buddy w/coin shop.
He's an expert (now my Stacks/Bowers inside man) w/30+yrs as a dealer. He thought I was a kook, as he'd never once heard the term "Transitional" Half-Dollar. He called another dealer who's niche in the US market
was made on knowledge of US Halves - Flowing Hair to present. This man not only knew about the variety,
but had been hoarding them for 20ish yrs, waiting for a TPG to recognize them. He was sure someday they would be worth real money; after all, they ARE the rarest JFK HD's. My coin shop buddy then started cherry-picking his 90% for them - I suppose they both are still at it!
Unless somebody has useful info on these coins, & because I'm the person who originally started this
thread, I declare the discourse on JFK Tranny's over & done with!
Take care all, Rob.
How rare are these really? I've never looked for one, but it seems like everyone who has, has found at least a handful of them. Shouldn't the "rarest Kennedy Half" be much, much more difficult to obtain?
"What we are is not as important as what we aren't"
Απόσπασμα: glorkarHow rare are these really? I've never looked for one, but it seems like everyone who has, has found at least a handful of them. Shouldn't the "rarest Kennedy Half" be much, much more difficult to obtain?
I'm here in the States for a short time and fitting into the schedule a coin store run. I'm trying to get something perfectly clear about this variety...
For a true variety, obverse from Philly with the stars struck at Denver mint, will actually have NO mint mark? Image on Numista has no MM and Ninja's photo has D mm. Different beast altogether?
So what to really look for is non accented hair (and normal I in LIBERTY) for obverse and broken rays with no D? Or is the variety really broken rays with normal I and who cares about mintmark?
From what I've been reading it's they changed the die because of the hair thing. How do you tell the obverse is Denver specific whereas the reverse would have the mintmark to tell the difference.
I'm not a specialist on the halfes. What I do have is a 64 half with normal non accented hair (I in Liberty serif weird) with reverse broken ray variety.
Απόσπασμα: Diego KnyteI'm here in the States for a short time and fitting into the schedule a coin store run. I'm trying to get something perfectly clear about this variety...
For a true variety, obverse from Philly with the stars struck at Denver mint, will actually have NO mint mark? Image on Numista has no MM and Ninja's photo has D mm. Different beast altogether?
So what to really look for is non accented hair (and normal I in LIBERTY) for obverse and broken rays with no D? Or is the variety really broken rays with normal I and who cares about mintmark?
From what I've been reading it's they changed the die because of the hair thing. How do you tell the obverse is Denver specific whereas the reverse would have the mintmark to tell the difference.
I'm not a specialist on the halfes. What I do have is a 64 half with normal non accented hair (I in Liberty serif weird) with reverse broken ray variety.
Thanks
Indeed mint mark does not matter as far as I know so long as it does not have accented hard, or letter I error in Liberty on obverse side. On reverse side it must have the broken rays as shown in my pictures as well as the G error in the signature FG
I have just received a 1964-D PCGS MS64 In the post today, under my loupe it is defiantly this transitional variety, although there is absolutely no mention of this on the slab at all.
Has anyone compared the reverse of this one and that of the accented hair variety to see if they are exactly the same? Is it possible that a similar process that caused the distinguishing marks on the Philadelphia strikes was independently done at Denver too? or is it defiantly an 'impossible' die paring?
Rgross2 Sent me one of his Halves absolutely free, out of his own pocket!
Now I am not a halves guy and I am not familiar with all the 64 variety's out there, but this one definitely has the broken rays and the plain G. However I don't see how it could be a Philly Proof die seeing how it has the Denver mint mark on it, and its not a proof surface. I would say the error was with the die and its just a Denver variety.
I am still undecided if its even a note worthy error, I still need to look closer at some D halves and a proof Philly
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!
ΑπόσπασμαI'm told none of the Big Four grading companies currently recognize this variety.
ANACS will attribute these in the Proof Variety.
ΑπόσπασμαI DID hear from one extremely knowledgeable Expert on the Numista Team, who advised me these are the scarcest '64 Kennedy Business Strikes EVER Minted. In fact, they in theory couldn't have been minted at all!
Could you elaborate on this a bit? The Type 2 reverse was used on Denver minted business strikes??
ΑπόσπασμαI guess, that this is not a recognized variety yet! I should imagine that after a while people will start to seek these once it has been recognized.
The Denver Mint - "The Kennedy Book"
The Proof Type 1 Obverse - Type 2 Reverese
ΑπόσπασμαThe mint denies it's existence.
No it does not. The Kennedy Book lists this variety. Although I have heard there is a slight difference between the Proof Type 1 Reverse and the Business Strike version.
ΑπόσπασμαI can't work out if it is a Philadelphia proof or business strike though. Has anyone heard of a transitional variety business strike from Philadelphia?
I guess I was wrong, it is a business strike from Philadelphia in which the question was asked.
Απόσπασμαthis is a legitimate coin that could end up as the rarest ever 64 Kennedy coin.
That would be the 64 SMS Kennedy's
There are a few threads that I have started on this topic as I think they are neat. It has estimated mintage information in it also.
I just put up a complete set of these Kennedy half dollars which includes 8 Proofs and 4 Business strikes or 2 sets of P&D. I listed the set on usacoinbook.com. All 12 coins come in a vintage seitz coin holder. I also listed the information about the 2 different die varieties that I could find myself on the web. Hope this helps you out a little.
Took me 55 years to find out about this coin. Now I have even more " UNKNOWN" about this type coin. Do any others have the marking ....em2xa.....inside the nostril of JFK??? Its there on mine. Took a while to get a good iphone magnified picture but its clear enough. I strongly believe that this was part of the mint design just as the extra hair was or even maybe the sms 64. I see the faint remains of the extra hair but the em2xa is rather pronounced in appearance on my coin. People will you please check for this and let me know. This could do wonders for these coins. A good look at my coin can be seen at my instagram account .....Larry.Gill
So does anybody have the ...em2xa......in the nostril ??? It googles as reference to an old law of fraud to USA currency. I believe this to be part of the mint design just as the "extra hair" design of which these transitional coin were probably made. If part of the was removed then part of the em2xa was removed later. I believe i can seen the bare remains of the original extra hair on the obverse of my coin by magnifing it. People please check for em2xa and comment on this type of coin. If there are more then this get these coin these noticed by dealers and graders.
OK here is my coin... on the front you can see it does not have any of the accented hair errors, yet on the reverse it has the 5 broken rays as well as the error G in 'FG'... The back contains all the tell-tale errors of the accented hair. Making this an authentic ODV-002, RDV-001 yet the rear is from the Denver mint.
Hi Coin_ninja,
This is what I believe I have. Please correct me if I am misinformed. Thank you.
Welcome to Numista. I Just observed your inquiry and would like to address it but refuse to fall into this rabbit hole of a topic of endless claims of a variety discovery by people who are intent on discovering something unique and want to be recognized for doing so. This is a very old thread that deservedly died and the member who made the claim is long gone. Suffice to say that there are recognized and confirmed major and minor varieties of almost everything. Even the recognized varieties bring little interest or add value except to perhaps a very few collectors that specialize in that particular coin type. Here are some recognized varieties of the Kennedy Half dollars. Are they worthy of note and add value or interest to you? That is up to the individual to decide. For me, I have no interest in the subject at all except to try to address your inquiry. Edit. What is on the other side of the encapsulated signature card you are referring to? Can you provide a photo? Perhaps that will help in Identification of the signature.
One thing is certain, whoever signed that didn't do it in Chicago on that date.
Absolutely true. For the sake of the OP however, that was the date RFK was assassinated and the 1964 Kennedy Half Dollar did not exist yet. Whoever signed the document clearly backdated it to commemorate that day. Who that person was and the significance of the Chicago reference and how it relates to his father is what is in question now.
Ok my friend. I tried to look up the signature via Google lens and was unsuccessful in a match to anybody of any major significance such as a Government official, a U.S. Treasuer, engraver or even a Government Mint official. Did your father ever visit the U.S.? In what capacity, etc, etc? Did he have a personal or business friend in Chicago? These are things you will have to investigate as this subject is beyond the Numismatic focus of this board. Good luck and sorry I could not be of further assistance.
