General 'multiple comments in different languages' issue

This is a slightly edited re-post from my earlier post on this issue that then I posted incorrectly in ‘Numista Coin Catalogue’, I was requested to post it again, yet here.

A comment of mine on the following page in English has been approved: N#18321

(I chose English as generally more people can understand reading English)

Previously, there was a different comment in French, which is still visible on the French page: (change language to French)

Now, on the same page in any language apart from French only my own comment is visible, but on the French page only the previous French comment is visible.

A general solution for this issue could to be to request the Numista programmers team to ensure that all comments in all languages get displayed on all language pages, in the order of first entry. On the other hand, on various pages comments may have been translated into different languages, possibly leading to the same information getting shared in more than one language.

To avoid double sharing, another general solution could be to start the comment section mentioning in which languages comments exist, all displayed in a single line consecutively. Or to add the option ‘comments in more than one language exist, view all’.
 

The same issue exists on many other pages, like for example:
N#854 (different comments versions in English and French)
N#663 (again, different comments versions in English and French)
N#3092 (the French version is missing a comment, which is present in other languages; this might be due to the original first comment in English on mint marks having been translated in French)

The translation is a bit of a problem. To make a change in a different language or add copy to a page where there already is copy in a different language, you have to change the page in both languages (or delete the original text). That is not easy or quick. If you don't, the original language doesn't change with your edits.

It would definitely be good to have a ‘purge all versions except the one submitted in English’ tickbox so they only needed editing once, which could be unticked if you wanted nuance in other languages.

AND

en version française lorsque le commentaire a été introduit en version anglaise, ce commentaire n'apparait pas sur la page de modification version française

CREPOSUC

AND

en version française lorsque le commentaire a été introduit en version anglaise, ce commentaire n'apparait pas sur la page de modification version française

C'est effectivement un problème : lors de la modification, on ne voit pas si des commentaires ont déjà été publiés dans d'autres langues.

Ce serait utile de le savoir, mais si l'on ne connaît pas l'autre langue, cela ne sert à rien. (My French seems really good thanks to Google Translate)

That (that the comments in other languages are not shown when editing in in this case French) is indeed a problem, while editing a page it doesn't show wether comments in another language exist.
It would be nice to know this, yet when you're not familiar with that other language it still doesn't help much to know that.

John Conduitt

The translation is a bit of a problem. To make a change in a different language or add copy to a page where there already is copy in a different language, you have to change the page in both languages (or delete the original text). That is not easy or quick. If you don't, the original language doesn't change with your edits.

It would definitely be good to have a ‘purge all versions except the one submitted in English’ tickbox so they only needed editing once, which could be unticked if you wanted nuance in other languages.

I agree.

Bien sur, mais les images explicatives ont un langage universel

😉

The page only can be edited in English or French:

• If you use the interface in English, you will edit the page in English, and your comments will be saved in the comments field for English.
• If you use the interface in French, you will edit the page in French, and your comments will be saved in the comments field for French.
• If you use the interface in other language, you will edit the page in...  English  (the system display a warning), and your comments will be saved in the comments field for English.

You must not write your comments in other language, only English or French (depending the interface) and referee must not allow this.

And you are right, there is a problem. The comments in English are displayed if the language of the interface is not French (if the comments in English are empty, the comments in French are displayed), and the comments in French are displayed only if the language of the interface is French (if the comments in French are empty, the comments in English are displayed).

This also happens with other language-dependent field (title, description.…).

There are some suggestions that might prevent these confusions:

• Distinguish translated fields from language independent fields in forms https://en.numista.com/forum/topic148076.html
• Introduction of the notion of “Language independent field” https://en.numista.com/forum/topic128212.html
• Include on edit object page all languages of language-dependent fields
  https://en.numista.com/forum/topic132467.html
  https://fr.numista.com/forum/topic120577.html

davidhs

The page only can be edited in English or French:

• If you use the interface in English, you will edit the page in English, and your comments will be saved in the comments field for English.
• If you use the interface in French, you will edit the page in French, and your comments will be saved in the comments field for French.
• If you use the interface in other language, you will edit the page in...  English  (the system display a warning), and your comments will be saved in the comments field for English.

 

You must not write your comments in other language, only English or French (depending the interface) and referee must not allow this.

 

And you are right, there is a problem. The comments in English are displayed if the language of the interface is not French (if the comments in English are empty, the comments in French are displayed), and the comments in French are displayed only if the language of the interface is French (if the comments in French are empty, the comments in English are displayed).

 

This also happens with other language-dependent field (title, description.…).

 

There are some suggestions that might prevent these confusions:

• Distinguish translated fields from language independent fields in forms https://en.numista.com/forum/topic148076.html
• Introduction of the notion of “Language independent field” https://en.numista.com/forum/topic128212.html
• Include on edit object page all languages of language-dependent fields
  https://en.numista.com/forum/topic132467.html
  https://fr.numista.com/forum/topic120577.html

This is a very useful reply, thank you!

As only comments in English and French exist and are allowed, there could be a rather elegant combined solution for the problem:
- automatically show both English and French comments, French comments first for users of the French version of Numista with English comments automatically translated in French, while Enlgish comments first for all other users with French comments automatically translated in English.

- while editing any page, show all comments, both English and French, again the French ones first for people editing in French and the English comments first for all other users. When showing all comments while editing, it is probably best to show the comments in their original language.
- think of a policy for what to do with comments that already exist in both languages, maybe keep just the best written ones as decided by referees case by case or simply allow them to exist both, either option would be fine with me personally, as at most there would be two versions only.

It would be really nice when this issue gets solved, yet this is not in my hands.

There are more problems than that.

If you comment in English, it will copy this to French. If you later delete the comment in English it will not delete as it is still there in French. It still appears in English with a symbol next to it showing it is translated.

If someone enters a comment on the varieties table at the bottom in French, it will copy that to English. If you later edit that in English, it will not edit the French. So the French is not updated. These varieties would need updating the same in both languages - there is no translation nuance to correct. Not doing so leaves the possibility that the French and English lines are for different varieties.

John Conduitt

There are more problems than that.

If you comment in English, it will copy this to French. If you later delete the comment in English it will not delete as it is still there in French. It still appears in English with a symbol next to it showing it is translated.

If someone enters a comment on the varieties table at the bottom in French, it will copy that to English. If you later edit that in English, it will not edit the French. So the French is not updated. These varieties would need updating the same in both languages - there is no translation nuance to correct. Not doing so leaves the possibility that the French and English lines are for different varieties.

That is a serious issue.
A good programmer should be able to write a script to select all types with date lines with such a translation issue by comparing all English and French versions.
Then for all cases found there might be a massive task of correcting them all manually, preferably by people who understand both languages.
Besides this, a standard comparison should be programmed to check for any potential translation issues for each modification, giving either just the referee or both the editor and the referee a notification of translation issue(s).

When a team is formed to work on this voluntary, then I can help.

John Conduitt

There are more problems than that.

If you comment in English, it will copy this to French. If you later delete the comment in English it will not delete as it is still there in French. It still appears in English with a symbol next to it showing it is translated.

If someone enters a comment on the varieties table at the bottom in French, it will copy that to English. If you later edit that in English, it will not edit the French. So the French is not updated. These varieties would need updating the same in both languages - there is no translation nuance to correct. Not doing so leaves the possibility that the French and English lines are for different varieties.

If the automatically translated comments are saved permanently then it is a bug as they should just be translations if nothing is written in the other language. Do you have examples?

The Comments here were in English. I deleted them, but they are still there as a ‘translation’. If I edit in French and delete them, they finally go N#256744