Request to delete this page - China 1 Jiao 2005 non magnetic KM#1210a

I don't have it, therefore it does not exist.
N#9838

I'm kidding of course. It does not exist for real. Most online catalogs got rid of it and our esteemed oriental expert @weepio pointed out my personal numismatic discovery of the year :) As I was passively searching for this type ever since it got out and with every order I was making was  checking does a seller have it. Sometimes it did but I got the wrong coin, a magnetic one. Now I'm happy I did not search for it more actively.

But even though mistakes do happen I am genuinely worried about the rarity index - there are clearly both versions for both years, how can so many people claim to have it?

NGC has slabbed two of them:

https://www.ngccoin.com/census/world/china-peoples-republic/sc-77/jiao/

But I also wasn't able to find one, so it should be a relatively rare coin.

So it actually exists?

I have a feeling it does not. A feeling is not a proof though. Others who are experts in the field say it does not. Chinese national catalog also says it does not.

Where are all the people who have it here?

Oh, they would just been negligent of the page itself and picked this version instead of right one.

I added comment on that page at least.

Also pinging a referee @The_One 

Jarcek

Also pinging a referee @The_One 

I would value NGC census as the coin actually exists, even though I personally never see one myself. Graded coins in different metal compositions or created as pattern/specimen pops up in market occasionally and some of those cannot be found in any catalogs before they appear. In this case though, NGC does have this coin type on its online catalog.

Then we should keep it. Please feel free to update comments I made on the page.

Jarcek

Then we should keep it. Please feel free to update comments I made on the page.

I will leave the comments as is for a while to see if there will be others adding more information proving if the coin does not exist, or if it is a contemporary counterfeit or replica.

I would trust the Chinese catalogs over NGC. They tend to blindly follow Krause; and most likely whoever submitted those two examples did not know which composition it was and just chose one.

I'll also note that PCGS does not acknowledge a copper-nickel type, only the 4 confirmed ones.

All the grading companies are notoriously bad in identifying the subtypes for tricky and less tricky examples. However, I think Jarcek did the right thing. Kept the entry with the note. As a consequence we might see that part of people will recheck their collection and realize they only have a double. 

As I always talk too much, I might add a personal example. Usually I am thorough and detailed, not as much as many others, but still… For Suriname I had a full set of Cu-Ni and Ni plated steel coins that mostly I got one by one, trusting Krause SCWC. Without checking each one on the magnet. Well, realized it when they really issued the nickel plated stuff some 20 years later than Krause foreseen :)

I just spent a good part of a day talking to dealers in China trying to find this and no one knew anything about it/stated it was never issued. I also went through some bulk of this coin with a magnet searching for it. So I agree with the previous comments on here that it probably doesn't exist. Would it be fair to assume that the ones that have been graded, if legit, are proofs or patterns which left the mint, and are not actually issued coins? Thus should the coin type be changed to this if it's not deleted completely as it seems implausible that it's a circulating coin

Well if the coin exists in CuNi, and weighs 1.9g, it should be thinner than the steel 3.2g mostly Fe coin. There is scant info in the NGC database.

I've been searching for this coin for a long time, but obviously I haven't been able to find it...because I don't think it exists. 

I'm convinced that all the users who claim to have this coin (NRI 15), which are quite a few, both in their collection and on their swap list, will magnetize if they look at it with a magnet...if anyone who "has" this coin wants to test it, I might be in for a surprise.

But obviously we're back to the same old thing: how do you prove that a coin doesn't exist? 😜

The only way I can think of is to enable the option (for the referee or for some admin) to send a common private message to all users who claim to have this coin (in their collection or in duplicates) asking if it is magnetic or non-magnetic. Is it possible?

I agree this would be a good idea, and in the meantime remove it from the circulation coins and maybe leave it in the patterns or something. We cant improve the quality of this system if things cant be improved

About the editing, I think the right thing has been done already. It is noted it might not exist. We do not have any evidence it does exist, even as a pattern and the Chinese editors clearly say there is no such pattern. I have no idea where 1.9 comes from but it's impossible, the Al coin had 1.1 g so it would be really (impossibly) thin.

One more thing, last week I have contacted @masterguru who has this nice photo of the coin here, but did not want to post since the result was expected - he checked own coins and said 3 pieces from 2005 are attracted to magnet. As result I can see he removed these coins from the swap list of this type (and likely own collection) which is the only correct thing to do. Bravo.

Four active members are offering this coin for swapping. They are @SPINUMIS, @nickdage, @JorgePinto and @guy555gv. If any of them are willing to test their coins, this will take us a step closer to answering this question definitively one way or the other.

Since we now know the image on the page is of a different type, I suggest we remove it. This will hopefully stimulate activity among users who think they own this type and could take us a further step forward.

I am Chinese, and I am also a coin collector. This coin does not exist at all! It is made only of stainless steel.

兄弟们，2005年的兰花一角硬币根本就没有同镍合金材质的啊，2005年的1毛钱只有不锈钢的。

ceh2019

Four active members are offering this coin for swapping. They are @SPINUMIS, @nickdage, @JorgePinto and @guy555gv. If any of them are willing to test their coins, this will take us a step closer to answering this question definitively one way or the other.

Since we now know the image on the page is of a different type, I suggest we remove it. This will hopefully stimulate activity among users who think they own this type and could take us a further step forward.

I agree that we should remove that catalog, or it may misleading lots of collectors who have no idea about Chinese coins. 
@Jarcek  Dear Numista team, please think about this suggestion, that catalog shall be removed. 

Sadly, @SPINUMIS, @nickdage, @JorgePinto and @guy555gv don't seem to have picked up on this thread. The images are still there, which we know to be of the regular type. Let's at least remove them, since they are clearly incorrect. If we do leave them there, can we update the comments to state that the images aren't of this type?

ok

I just removed the images. Which is the other type, I would be inclined to move members there.

ok merci

Thanks, @nickdage. I've just checked and three different active members currently have it listed for swap, @LiaHen , @Bengal Numismatist and @israel mena. I agree with Jarcek that we should move owners, if possible also alerting them that their coin is being moved so they can check to see if it is non-magnetic.

I checked my coin, magnetic. Thanks.