Add numeric value of denomination in a modification request [επιλυμένο]

Can the numeric value of a denomination be displayed in a modification request?

For security and to avoid errors (e.g. if two denomination with the same title have different numeric values).

Same here. When a denomination has several numeric values, it's not display and looks like isn't changing nothing.

Can you give an example of a case where same denomination can have different relative values and be in the same currency ?

For example, Groat of Libra, from Principality of Catalonia: https://en.numista.com/forum/topic144562.html

1 Groat (1/20) N#125000

1 Groat (3/40) N#125044

1 Groat (0.1) N#192786

1 Groat (3/20) N#107583

Also there are other denominations of this currency, and other currencies.

Thanks.

They are from different centuries, I wonder if the solution should not be to have more precise currencies on less large time span, allowing to define precisely the relative value according to successive monetary reforms

N#125042  1 Groat (1/20) 1410

N#125044 1 Groat (3/40) 1412

If you make a change request then question if you made it right all you see is this:

I wonder how a collector can know which relative value to chose? Why the monetary system has same denomination for 2 different values?

Compendium

They are from different centuries, I wonder if the solution should not be to have more precise currencies on less large time span, allowing to define precisely the relative value according to successive monetary reforms

I want to do this in other currency: Real (1497-1833) from Spain https://es.numista.com/forum/topic144790.html

But I think in this currency (Libra from Principality of Catalonia) this has not sense because of

• only three name of denominations have variations in value, but the currency of account (Libra) is not variable, nor are the other denominations
• the variations are many:
  Pacifico: 1465-1476, from 1476
  Croat: 1285-1406, 1407-1424, 1425-1453, 1454-1500, 1501-1669, from 1670
  Trentin: 1299-1618, from 1618
  so we will need split in 8 currencies: 1285-1406, 1407-1424, 1425-1453, 1454-1476, 1476-1500, 1501-1618, 1618-1669, from 1670

I think there other medieval currencies with same problem… perhaps we (or your, the catalog administrators) should decide what to do with these currencies (in these currencies the big denominations have a variable number of small denominations).

Compendium

I wonder how a collector can know which relative value to chose? Why the monetary system has same denomination for 2 different values?

My first idea was add the years in the denomination: 1 Groat (1285-1406) - 1/20

This is related to my other suggestion: https://en.numista.com/forum/topic145726.html

There are several questions that must be resolved before continuing, in order to set a guideline to follow: 

• How much space is there to write subdivisions?
• What do we do when a denomination has different values over time?
• How are these values written in subdivisions and denominations?
• When we divide a currency with denominations with different values over time?

I don't think you can adhere to all medieval value changes. There could be dozens of miniscule adjustments due to changing fineness and peoples acceptance etc. over the course of a few decades. In some regions and times there could be as many as 4 adjustments a year when some greedy lord melted down all the good coins and gave out more slightly worse ones.

Idolenz

I don't think you can adhere to all medieval value changes. There could be dozens of miniscule adjustments due to changing fineness and peoples acceptance etc. over the course of a few decades. In some regions and times there could be as many as 4 adjustments a year when some greedy lord melted down all the good coins and gave out more slightly worse ones.

Yes… no all, of course. Only the main/official. If there are many variations can be an average.

Idolenz

I don't think you can adhere to all medieval value changes. There could be dozens of miniscule adjustments due to changing fineness and peoples acceptance etc. over the course of a few decades. In some regions and times there could be as many as 4 adjustments a year when some greedy lord melted down all the good coins and gave out more slightly worse ones.

Exactly. We need a guideline for values in medieval coins. If we use initial, average, each known change of values or whatever. If this implies a change in the monetary system or not.

Compendium

Can you give an example of a case where same denomination can have different relative values and be in the same currency ?

The grosso of many Italian city-states varied in relation to the main units of account during the late medieval era, often accompanied by a change in size and or/fineness.  Florence may be the strongest example, where the grosso inflated by a factor of more than 5 relative to the soldo across 300 years and many coinage reforms,  and we have accounted for the major changes in the face values in the catalog:

N#357865

N#307445

N#117876

N#85096

N#307416

N#320182

N#389589

N#304797

Compendium

I wonder how a collector can know which relative value to chose? Why the monetary system has same denomination for 2 different values?

I think in most cases there are other distinguishing characteristics of the coin like the Ruling Authority, the weight, or some differences in the design.  I think this is true of the Catalonia groats/croats which started the discussion.  You can see for Florence it is more difficut because of some “immobilized” types that look nearly the same over large periods of time.  

If the coins are  described well enough in our catalog, it should not be a problem in most cases for a collector to understand which coin he/she has (unless the coin is badly word, damaged, etc., but this is a problem regardless of the face value!).    

Hello,

The modification request now shows the numeric value of denominations.

Thanks!

I copied questions https://en.numista.com/forum/topic144651.html#p1158009 to this other suggestion: https://en.numista.com/forum/topic145726.html