Add Orange Free State

Could we add the Orange Free State, to the modern South Africa?

It seems to be after the unification of South Africa, so under South Africa, but issued by the Orange Free State..?

Orange Free State (1910-1918)

Catalog example:

N#218065

A section titled ‘Provinces of the Union of South Africa’ needs to be added for the notes issued by the provinces of the Union of South Africa prior to 1921, when the South African Reserve Bank was established.

Aidan.

But we have the issuer here: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/orange_free_state-1.html Or am I missing something?

Hi Jarcek

The example given is from after the union of South Africa. Where the Orange Free State seemed to issue notes.

Should it be moved to the Orange Free State, despite being issued after the Union of South Africa was established..? 🤔 The Republic ruler in the current Orange Free State is ending in 1902.

Should probably also have poked @Pcoetzee5  before as well 😅

Good afternoon

Interesting dilema.  The Union was formed in 1910, long after the Republic of the Orange Free State ended.

Do we know of any other coins and or Banknotes that was issued for a province only?  If yes, then a division into the 4 provinces will make sense.  If this is the only one, might not be worth it.  At the end of the day the idea is to make it easier to search for a particular item, and put its existance in context to the political status at the time.  The recent move has also been to move coins and banknotes. not aimed at being released, to the exonumia section.  Not something I support, by the way.

That all said and one, I think adding a “Orange Fee State” section under South Africa would make it more complete.

Philip

I think “South Africa (pre union)” should be renamed with generic expression “South African States” to cover all cases of sub issuers.

You are joking right.  They were as far away removed from South African States as what Germany and Austria are German States. 

These were either independent countries in their own right, or in the case of the Cape,  an English colony.

If you do want to change something,  the split it seperate countries.  Or still best,  leave them as they are right now.

Philip 

Pcoetzee5

You are joking right.  They were as far away removed from South African States as what Germany and Austria are German States. 

 

These were either independent countries in their own right, or in the case of the Cape,  an English colony.

 

If you do want to change something,  the split it seperate countries.  Or still best,  leave them as they are right now.

 

Philip 

Ok but many other categories are shaped like that currently: when ancient state was geographically fully part of a current modern state, it is referenced in it (see belgian states or french states for instance)

“South Africa (pre-union)” is a better term, imo, as it is the one used, widely in my experience, to describe the areas which were joined to make up South Africa. 

The term “South African States” is, I think, too generic, and could be understood to refer to any state or country in southern Africa.

But on the other hand, we would loose specifity of coherent section by such move.

Jarcek

But on the other hand, we would loose specifity of coherent section by such move.

Yes our current subsections groupings are variable depending on countries : sometimes they are specific to a historic context (Notgeld, Pre federal, etc), sometimes they are just geographical grouping for any past entity when borders match current ones.

The Orange Free State was a province of South Africa from 1910 until 1994, when the 4 provinces were replaced by the current 9 provinces.

Aidan.

For the U.S., we have the awkwardly named section “Pre-Federal and Private/Territorial” to cover both coinage of the individual states before the formation of the United States, and some money of necessity issued in territories after the formation of the U.S. and establishment of the dollar as the national currency.

If we were to do the same thing here, we would make a section in the “Pre-Union” section for Orange Free State, and modify the name of this grouping. 

As stated by Compendium, we use the term “States” for sections like this NOT to signify an official governmental status, but only as Numista terminology for “a grouping of related sub-issuers.”  

I would close this.

Banknote is clearly made by South Africa, only thing is that it was/was meant to be? somehow limited to Orange Free State, which would still be in minds of the people and (I am just guessing now) could be administratively distinct?