New issuers: Afghanistan [επιλυμένο]

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Hello!

 

This thread is about expanding Afghanistan a bit… this is what I am thinking:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1L1evKPl9qgr_ufTH9Kr4EDKFT8Eidvjy9nux2nsSwzQ/edit?usp=sharing

 

Afghanistan
----- Afghanistan
----- Afghan states
---------- Afghan cities
--------------- Badakhshan, City of
--------------- Balkh, City of (N#138897)
--------------- Ghaznayn, City of
--------------- Herat, City of
--------------- Hisar, City of
--------------- Jalalabad, City of (N#138420)
--------------- Kabul, City of (N#147595)
--------------- Khanabad, City of
--------------- Nimruz, City of
--------------- Peshawar, City of
--------------- Qandahar, City of (N#146994)
--------------- Qunduz, City of
--------------- Sar-i Pul, City of
--------------- Shaburghan, City of
--------------- Taliqan, City of
--------------- Tashqurghan, City of
--------------- Uncertain Afgan city
---------- Herat (N#166144)
---------- Kashmir Valley (N#278131)
---------- Qandahar, Principality of (N#228804)
 

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

So the Afghan cities encompasses all “civic copper” issues from Afghanistan. All those cities issued civic coppers at some point; those which issued non-civic coppers include Herat, Qandahar, and Peshawar.

 

Around a certain time, there were three co-existing principalities in Afghanistan--Herat, Qandahar, and Kabul. Kabul is basically Afghanistan proper; the other two were separate. The Principality of Qandahar had issued some of its own coins, so it is on the list. The Principality of Herat also had its own coins; however, they also had a few coins after dissolving and becoming a province (hence why no title is listed for Herat).

 

And the Kashmir Valley includes local coins from Afghan rule under three different rulers, between 1807 and 1819 (Qaisar Shah, Ata Muhammad Bamizai Khan, and Muhammad A'zim).

 

And thoughts or comments welcomed, of course.  :)

Upvote, congratulations for your excellent work

 

But before anything, I am wondering how the Durrani Empire still not yet splited

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durrani_Empire

Thanks! All those cities were minting their own coinage? 

I am not sure about splitting the Durrani Empire. Sure, it was geographically bigger than modern-day Afghanistan, but with time, it kind of dwindled down to the Emirate of Afghanistan, which is just a ruling authority of Afghanistan. That was just how I read interpreted it, basically. Could be wrong, and discussions are welcomed.  :)

 

All those cities did issue their own coinage, and there are examples on Zeno from each of them. When the issuers are added, I will be sure to populate each with one coin so they all appear on the list.  :)

Ok thanks I can do a batch to add them.

 

Why not listing the principality of Kabul in Afghan states?

Why not putting Herat, Principality of if it was a principality?

 

Can you list currencies needed that I can copy and/or create? Same for rulers?

additional questions : shouldn't Peshawar, Hisor etc go under their respective modern states ? (Tadjikistan, Pakistan etc)

I formatted the import batch (I already created manually the main section and the Afghan states section): let's continue the work here : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DE0MAHSElWZvgJ6Sh3gY6NAvZoRvyoKi9AUE9HyRxCE/edit?usp=sharing

Principality of Kabul: this is synonymous with the Emirate of Afghanistan. From my understanding, at a certain time, Afghanistan itself split into three Principalities: Kabul, Herat, and Qandahar. Kabul was the biggest, the one which ended up taking over both Herat and Qandahar, and the one that led in to modern-day Afghanistan. Basically: this is better as a ruling authority of Afghanistan rather than its own issuer (with its ruling authority currently being listed as the Barakzai dynasty; I requested to change this in my ruling authority thread).

 

Herat: I would not be opposed to listing this as a Principality as well; however, coins struck under its last ruler, Mohammad Yaqub Khan, were after the Principality of Herat was taken over by the Emirate of Afghanistan. That ruler was governor of the Province, so… I believe both the Principality and the Province would serve better as ruling authorities under a general “Herat” issuer.

 

Ruling Authorities:

 

Balkh, City of

Barakzai dynasty

Muhammad Ishaq, Rebel, 1888-1889

*** “Ruler” probably works for this

 

Peshawar, City of

Barakzai dynasty

Sultan Muhammad Tila'i, Ruler, 1832-1835

 

Qandahar, City of

Durrani dynasty

Humayun Shah, Ruler, 1793

Qaisar Shah, Governor, 1804

(Anonymous, Ruler, circa 1825-1828 >> Don't need to add, as you said)

Wali Sher 'Ali Khan, Governor, 1880

 

Kashmir Valley

Durrani dynasty

Qaisar Shah, Governor, 1807-1808

Ata Muhammad Bamizai Khan, Governor, 1808-1813

Muhammad A'zim, Governor, 1813-1819

 

Qandahar, Principality of

Barakzai dynasty

Sher Dil Khan, Ruler, 1818-1826

Pur Dil Khan, Ruler, 1826-1830

Kohan Dil Khan, Ruler, 1831-1839,1843-1855

 

Herat

Principality, Durrani dynasty

Shah Shujah Durrani, Ruler, 1818-1829, Q457944

Kamran Shah Durrani, Ruler, 1829-1842, Q7462365

Province, Barakzai dynasty

Mohammad Yaqub Khan, Governor, 1863-1874, Q613704

 

---------------------------------

 

Most of these rulers do not have Wiki pages, from what I could find. And any of the cities not listed above only have anonymous coins.

For currencies, I have not been recording what to put there… I imagine it is likely a standard currency, as they use the same denominations as regular Afghanistan at the time.

 

And I do not think Peshawar and Hisar should go under Pakistan / Tajikistan, as Afghanistan's boarders, at the time, were larger than what they are now. For example, Afghanistan had Badakhshan, which is in both modern-day Afghanistan and Tajikistan; Badakhshan City (the capital) was at an uncertain location within that area. So… should that one be Afghanistan or Tajikistan, if we do not know for certain? I would say Afghanistan because it was certainly Afghan when it issued coins.

 

As well, with all these civic coppers being closely related, it makes sense, to me, to have them all under the same category. Even when it comes to the issuer Uncertain Afghan city… based on historical boarders, those coins could have been under Tajikistan or Pakistan too, potentially.

 

EDIT: And your Sheet looks different than what I am used to (although the format I am using is a couple years old). I will need a bit of an explanation on how to use it.  x)

Η κατάσταση άλλαξε σε Ξεκινημένο. (Compendium, 28 Σεπ 2023, 12:24)
Η κατάσταση άλλαξε σε Ολοκληρώθηκε. (Compendium, 28 Σεπ 2023, 12:30)

I added the new issuers as is, we can iterate later if needed.
Please let's wait for listings to refresh before adding rulers (you can create a new thread for them maybe?). I just added the ones for Herat, as they required some groups of rulers considered as country names (principality and province) : example N#166144

Made a new thread, and sounds good to me. Thank you! :)

So just wondering… will the cities all be grouped under a general “Afghan cities” as well? I see they are not yet.

 

I suggested this mostly because every single city issued “civic coppers,” which seems to be a separate, less popular area of Numismatics than just general Afghanistan. By grouping all cities together, the civic coppers are kept together, while the other larger areas are more noticeable.

 

I ask this because the same thing will happen with Iran, when I get to that issuer. They are another issuer who had “civic coppers," only they seem to have had 59 issuing cities (so a whole lot more), and potentially only five non-city issuing states (and those will most certainly all get lost in all the cities). I am considering Iran here because I would like Iran and Afghanistan to be consistent, as they both had these “civic coppers” (the third area being Central Asia, which had significantly less cities but that I will still tackle in the future).

Sulfur

So just wondering… will the cities all be grouped under a general “Afghan cities” as well? I see they are not yet.

 

I suggested this mostly because every single city issued “civic coppers,” which seems to be a separate, less popular area of Numismatics than just general Afghanistan. By grouping all cities together, the civic coppers are kept together, while the other larger areas are more noticeable.

 

I ask this because the same thing will happen with Iran, when I get to that issuer. They are another issuer who had “civic coppers," only they seem to have had 59 issuing cities (so a whole lot more), and potentially only five non-city issuing states (and those will most certainly all get lost in all the cities). I am considering Iran here because I would like Iran and Afghanistan to be consistent, as they both had these “civic coppers” (the third area being Central Asia, which had significantly less cities but that I will still tackle in the future).

I understand the concern but dont think we should add so many categories. We did not grouped cities for european issuers substates

Well, I do not really think the European cities are that comparable… this is solely because there is a whole numismatic area dealing with “civic coppers," and having an Afghan cities section would group them all together.

 

Unless there is another way to search these issuers as “civic copper” issuers? I don't think it would work as a Category (not a period or empire)… but perhaps we can add it like those Euros/United States/France/Ancient Greece sections?

German and french notgelder are all  as separated issuers as well.

 

Just little fact: The flag of Afghanistan is missing.

Sulfur

Well, I do not really think the European cities are that comparable… this is solely because there is a whole numismatic area dealing with “civic coppers," and having an Afghan cities section would group them all together.

 

Unless there is another way to search these issuers as “civic copper” issuers? I don't think it would work as a Category (not a period or empire)… but perhaps we can add it like those Euros/United States/France/Ancient Greece sections?

Greating a specific landing page for civic coppers would be feasible I guess. We discussed about doing that for all Notgeld too. Can you create a new thread about this idea to improve Numista?

Sure. I'll do that after I get the other civic coppers down… working on Iran now:)

Geison

Just little fact: The flag of Afghanistan is missing.

Was about to write this.

The flag is only appearing on the nowadays Afghanistan that is now a 2nd level issuer, there is no flag on the 1st level Afghanistan.

Giobruno

Geison

Just little fact: The flag of Afghanistan is missing.

Was about to write this.

The flag is only appearing on the nowadays Afghanistan that is now a 2nd level issuer, there is no flag on the 1st level Afghanistan.

Xavier fixed it earlier. Should appear soon

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