Pair of denarius? [επιλυμένο]

Hello! I would appreciate some help with identifying this pair thank you!

found it! N#66729

if anyone wants to give opinion of the authenticity feel free to do so :)

You don't find it odd that you ended up with two 2000-year old coins that seemingly came from the same “cracked die”? While other devices on the coins are different?

Pretty sure these are fake.

Kopeika

You don't find it odd that you ended up with two 2000-year old coins that seemingly came from the same “cracked die”? While other devices on the coins are different?

 

Pretty sure these are fake.

What does cracked die mean? Without knowing i have two of them would you still think its fake?

My Grandpa bought huge amount of very dirty and crusty uncleaned coins over many years. Is it possible for those to be fake? 

Sure. It's not very difficult to make a coin dirty. And as you can see, the dirt came off just fine, leaving behind some strange looking patina.

Can't speak for the other coins your grandpa bought, but these two are surely fake. Sorry. 

If you carefully compare your coins to the one linked above, you can see that many of the details don't look right. Compare the swords for example.

Surely interesting, my coins says AED next to the sword and the one i linked says AE. 

Kind regards and wishes for health and well-being.

     I have some doubts about most of your published heritage collection.

I'm only human and I'm not an expert on the subject, so I could be wrong, however, I have a doubt and I will explain why.

* both of these coins come from the same die

*they were never dirty and did not lie in the ground and did not need to be cleaned

*the same chemical patina with the help of sulfate

If you don't know where and how much grandfather bought the coins for, I recommend that you have the coins examined by experts when you change or sell them.

Already in the last thread, most of the coins seemed strange to me.

My opinion, think about whether it is possible to own two coins of the same patina from the same die.

Ivan

Compare to see if you can find two that are exactly the same.

https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=563029658&rlz=1C1NHXL_csCZ927CZ927&sxsrf=AB5stBhpbmwnxUHpLwoeonKveWuuERHISg:1693994467741&q=Den%C3%A1r+Sulpicia:+Publius+Sulpicius+Galba&tbm=isch&source=univ&fir=xZyaosn8EKKHYM%252C0oCat3UrJdwZwM%252C_%253Bx2KTExWxWGAYoM%252C0oCat3Ur

Ivan

Hello welcome to the discussion.

Thank you for all the valid points you are making. Indeed some of the coins raises some suspicious thoughts for me too and i will try my best to find out for sure even if chances are low. The coins I posted is just a few in a very large collection that caught my eyes and maybe they are too good to be true..

However I have asked familymembers to gain as much information on what they remember from my grandpa when he bought coins and everyone says that he always bought dirty coins and cleaned them himself. In most cases cleaned them too much and in ways that may not be the correct way. I found some pictures from a brochure that I will share so you can see what they used too look like. Isnt it possible for this pair to get the same patina if cleaned the same way? You seemed certain they where never dug up and dirty to begin with, could you please elaborate on that? 

One thing I noticed in the brochures he printed is that these more unique looking coins is not part of the brochure and maybe he also had doubts about them being genuine.

Kind regards

This is from two of his brochures.

I think what my esteemed colleague is trying to say regarding the dirt, is that these are not coins that had spend 2 thousand years under ground. They may have been made dirty by the people who counterfeited them to appear old and fool an unscrupulous buyer, who in this case, unfortunately, may have been your Grandpa. One can make a fake coin, bury it in his garden for a year, dig it up and sell it as an ancient artifact.

Kopeika

I think what my esteemed colleague is trying to say regarding the dirt, is that these are not coins that had spend 2 thousand years under ground. They may have been made dirty by the people who counterfeited them to appear old and fool an unscrupulous buyer, who in this case, unfortunately, may have been your Grandpa. One can make a fake coin, bury it in his garden for a year, dig it up and sell it as an ancient artifact.

well im curious of how you can say with ease that these coins havent spent 2 thosands years under dirt. If I where to put a coin in my garden for a couple years I could probably just put it under some tapwater and rinse the dirt off. That is definitely not the case here.

What does your instinct tell you about this one?

Toocloudy

 

well im curious of how you can say with ease that these coins havent spent 2 thosands years under dirt. If I where to put a coin in my garden for a couple years I could probably just put it under some tapwater and rinse the dirt off. That is definitely not the case here.

The coins look like new, so that's literally what happened - your grandpa put them under a tap and washed the dirt off. As MIMAEL said, the green patina looks artificially applied. How does he know that? Years of experience. 

Don't know about your last coin - it's too worn and have nothing to compare it to. It's not so much about instinct, but more about comparing to a known real coin and using logical reasoning - like the impossibility of two identical cracked die ancient coins ending up in your hands. The odds of that happening are basically zero. And again, the details on those coins look like a childish cartoon compared to the real thing. If you can't see it yourself, there's nothing we can tell you that will make you believe it. You simply want your coins to be real.

Just take them to a coin shop in your city and see what they tell you.

You can bring the horse to a well, but you can't make him drink.

There is no need to make rude assumptions here. I just told you he did not rinse them off in the sink. I have seen his ways of cleaning roman coins myself.

 Obviously i want them to be genuine but if they are fake then I want to understand what makes them fake so i can learn and apply when examining other coins.

About the last coin here is what i believe is the link. N#375835

Příliš zataženo

 I have seen his ways of cleaning roman coins myself.

Greetings to the north of Europe.

   I clean Greek coins 200B.C. - i Roman 300A.D. - I never - I really never put a patina on them (even though I can do it and I have no problem applying diseases like green or brown rust) I wouldn't even think of spoiling the coin - I clean it to help it and I preserve "Konkor", which is for weapons or VD 40 depending on the metal. ( I clean the coins in an ultrasonic bath)

of course, only the completely lost - a coin that has its own patina and is not entirely covered in clay or sand, under a deposit of rust and mud-so I don't clean such a coin, it has its charm as it is, so only the unreadable one covered in dust and dirt.

I cast my own metal, punch my own coin, apply a thousand-year-old patina to it.

I play with my own coins and on ebay I see coins completely covered in an artificial patina of tar coating, or chalk and sand.

You write that you saw the old man cleaning, and I'm interested in copper, bronze and silver. How he did it?

How did he clean bronze coins?

And how did he clean the silver - I don't see preservative oil on your coins.

Yes, I could show an example of a patina applied to silver coins - but on principle I would not want to show it and I would not give instructions, although I like to experiment.

https://gorazduv-denar.webnode.cz

Ivan

All your topics are missing one key piece of information, weight and diameter. Better photos under natural light and edge/rim photos would also be welcome.

As for getting the coins out of lots I've seen on more than one occasion high grade replicas being added into large lots of genuine ancient coins to increase the value of the lot. The seller knows exactly what he's doing while the buyer thinks the seller knows nothing of ancient coins and he's getting a deal.

I suggest putting the coins on https://www.forumancientcoins.com/ You'll get much more detailed answers on why a coins is authentic or not there. Just make sure you open a single topic with good photos for each individual coin with all relevant information like weight and diameter.

Hope this helps!

MIMAEL

Příliš zataženo

 I have seen his ways of cleaning roman coins myself.

Greetings to the north of Europe.

   I clean Greek coins 200B.C. - i Roman 300A.D. - I never - I really never put a patina on them (even though I can do it and I have no problem applying diseases like green or brown rust) I wouldn't even think of spoiling the coin - I clean it to help it and I preserve "Konkor", which is for weapons or VD 40 depending on the metal. ( I clean the coins in an ultrasonic bath)

of course, only the completely lost - a coin that has its own patina and is not entirely covered in clay or sand, under a deposit of rust and mud-so I don't clean such a coin, it has its charm as it is, so only the unreadable one covered in dust and dirt.

 

I cast my own metal, punch my own coin, apply a thousand-year-old patina to it.

 

I play with my own coins and on ebay I see coins completely covered in an artificial patina of tar coating, or chalk and sand.

 

You write that you saw the old man cleaning, and I'm interested in copper, bronze and silver. How he did it?

How did he clean bronze coins?

And how did he clean the silver - I don't see preservative oil on your coins.

 

Yes, I could show an example of a patina applied to silver coins - but on principle I would not want to show it and I would not give instructions, although I like to experiment.

https://gorazduv-denar.webnode.cz

Ivan

When it comes to the cleaning done by my grandpa I cant tell you a step by step guide. All I know is that he soaked them for many hours in things like olive oil, lemon juice and even coca cola. I dont know if he had different methods for different metals. Also he did scrubb them A LOT. Thats all i know. 

Is that greenish “patina” a comon thing on fakes? Would be very intresting with some examples of artificial patinas.

I managed to get a scale that measures with two decimals/gram today after looking in many local shops. They are both underweight.. 

they should be 3.93 and mine are 3.17 and 3.15 grams 

When measuring the diameter do you measure diameter of the "beading" or the whole coin?

Kind regards

cro321

All your topics are missing one key piece of information, weight and diameter. Better photos under natural light and edge/rim photos would also be welcome.

 

As for getting the coins out of lots I've seen on more than one occasion high grade replicas being added into large lots of genuine ancient coins to increase the value of the lot. The seller knows exactly what he's doing while the buyer thinks the seller knows nothing of ancient coins and he's getting a deal.

 

I suggest putting the coins on https://www.forumancientcoins.com/ You'll get much more detailed answers on why a coins is authentic or not there. Just make sure you open a single topic with good photos for each individual coin with all relevant information like weight and diameter.

 

Hope this helps!

I know im very new to this, all the tips help. It was hard to find but i did buy a scale today so i will be adding weight and diameter from now on and also better photos. 

I will have a look on the website you recommended.

Thank you! :)

I gave you instructions here:

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic136291.html