Native American Tribes coins to be moved to coin catalog?

We began to receive requests to move some Native American Tribe non legal tenders from Exonumia to coins catalog

Example: N#98746

Just wanted to get your opinion before rejecting (which is fir now my opinion) :-)

Micronations are in, so why not :-)

For me it would be a no. It’s not a currency for a country or broadly recognized issuing entity. They are located on American territory, where the US Dollar is the applicable currency.

Without wanting to offend anyone, it would be the same if Disney World in Florida would issue coins that can be spent within the theme park.

Regarding the recent discussions, I think there is a difference between a tribe and a micronation, as a tribe (at least this one) is recognized, has history and is not established to evade taxes.

Unless you have evidence that these are legal tender or have monetary value; such as a government website, a pdf of the law or act that authorised them, then they should probably stay in exonumia.

Anyone can claim them to be coins, I wouldn't trust the site selling them to be accurate.

inc7007

Unless you have evidence that these are legal tender or have monetary value; such as a government website, a pdf of the law or act that authorised them, then they should probably stay in exonumia.

 

Anyone can claim them to be coins, I wouldn't trust the site selling them to be accurate.

Then why are we allowing the Andorran medals in the coin section?

Some_Nerd

Then why are we allowing the Andorran medals in the coin section?

Because Andorra is an established country and their coins are issued by the national bank. 

smvdbrink

For me it would be a no. It’s not a currency for a country or broadly recognized issuing entity. They are located on American territory, where the US Dollar is the applicable currency.

 

Without wanting to offend anyone, it would be the same if Disney World in Florida would issue coins that can be spent within the theme park.

No offense taken, but I don't think this is a valid comparison.  

Something like Catalunya issuing euro coins would be a better analogy .

Having said this, I don't know the best answer.  Before the U.S. Federal government authorized a national coinage (1792 I think), the states issued their own coinage, and we have these in the coin part of our catalog.  I doubt that 1787 Connecticut pennies would have been accepted as legal tender in Virginia.

But I don't know the status of these tribal coins vis-a-vis the U.S. dollar.

tdziemia

No offense taken, but I don't think this is a valid comparison.  
 

Something like Catalunya issuing euro coins would be a better analogy .

You are absolutely right! I truly couldn’t think of a better example at that moment.

Native Amati can tribe can be compare to Micronation that are in coin catalog:

Indomini16

Native Amati can tribe can be compare to Micronation that are in coin catalog:

So your suggestion is to create more micronations to include Tribes?

I must confess these micronations rules are blurry to me

Compendium

So your suggestion is to create more micronations to include Tribes?

I must confess these micronations rules are blurry to me

No, my point is to say if we have Micronation here and even non tender coins why these tribes should belong to Exonumia and not coins?

I’m with you, we have a grey area where we integrate Micronations or even non legal tender coins, we have notgeld but no hard tokens from US…

We are lacking a clear rule of what belong to the coin catalog and what not.

First question is, to be in the coin catalogue should a coin be legal tender?

Second is, as we allow notgeld, Micronations or even country not recognize by UN, what make a place applicable to be in the coin catalog ?

Please, let the micronations and the tribes stay in exonumia.

Sjoelund

Please, let the micronations stay in exonumia.

As you can see, they are currently not all in Exonumia ;-)

Indomini16

Sjoelund

Please, let the micronations stay in exonumia.

As you can see, they are currently not all in Exonumia ;-)

😉So move them to there🙂

I believe that in order to determine if these American Tribes could be in the coin section, a common and unique criterion should first be established that would give us a guideline to decide. 

In my opinion, any piece with face value issued by a State with full or limited recognition should belong to the coin catalog (as long as the piece has been issued by its Government or at least has given its authorization).

It should be decided if the Micronations should be in Coin or Exonumia Catalog, but establish a single criteria for all of them. Personally, it doesn't bother me that they are in the Coin Catalog since I think there are quite a few people who collect these coins and in this Catalog it is easier to identify them, since it is separated by countries, but if it is decided that they go to Exonumia it also makes sense. Only a common criterion should be established for all.

In relation to the American Tribes (or another type of entity that could be similar), I am not clear about what their legal entity is and what it could be more like, so it is difficult for me to decide where it should be included.

Regarding the comparison with Catalonia (I'm catalan), this is part of the territorial division of Spain as one of the 17 Autonomous Communities (I think that in the case of the American Tribes it is not like that), but also the Catalan "Euros" were not issued by any official body, it was a private initiative (Article below):

“It was the year 2014 when a businessman from Lleida, named Miquel, came up with the idea of ​​creating some Catalan euros. He made eight designs, hired a Chinese company to make some copper and brass tokens in a blister pack, and sold 8,000 copies in no time. I imagine that he did not have to invest much in marketing because by 2014 the Catalan independence movement was already very hot and this Catalan euro thing struck a very sensitive chord with many people…”

The “Loyal” Shawnee are a Sovereign Nation recognized by a US act of congress. This nation has legal tender and commemorative coinage, just like many countries. The listing of coinage from this country should be with other world countries or maybe micro nations.

As I said many times - regardless of issuing authority - only a piece you can use to buy a loaf of bread, milk and a pack of cigarettes (even just locally or for a limited period) should be considered a coin. Everything else - exonumia. 

Im from Oklahoma.  Where the US forcibly resettled tribes back in the day.  I live 20 miles From Shawnee.  So many nations are hq here in this state.  These are garbage issues.  No one here seems to take them seriously…