Adding New Year Lines, Ukrainian circulating coins, 2 kopiikas [επιλυμένο]

Hello everyone!

I finally got some spare time and want to correct the Ukrainian coins pages at Numista. A lot of them have errors or need additional modifications. I changed some information already, and the referee approved it, but I need to add or delete some lines and the referee does not have permission to do so as well.

Ukrainian circulating coins have a lot of major and minor varities, a lot of people in Ukraine collect them by those varieties. There are several catalogs that describe those varieties, and the most complete so far is “ITK” from 2014. So I will be using it as the main reference. https://monety-yagidky.com.ua/books/itk8.pdf

I propose to use only major varieties of the coins, and simply to note that there are some minor varieties for some types. Otherwise, it will be just too complicated for collectors at Numista. In addition, there are a lot of varieties of trial or “hooligan” (those that were minted by some employees or those who oversaw the minting process at Luhansk mint in the 1990s) coins. I propose just to omit them as well, as there are 100s of them.

To start with the easier one, I want to edit this page for 2 kopiikas.

N#2758

Some of the varieties are already listed, but I would like to add a few more types.

  - There are 4 major types of 1993, not 2. There should be added 2 more lines for 1993.

     - "obv.: large & coarse lettering, rev.: small & fine lettering." - already exists

     - "obv.: large & coarse lettering, rev.: large & coarse lettering. Mintage included above" - needs to be added

     - "obv.: small & fine lettering, rev.: large & coarse lettering. Mintage included above" - already exists

     - "obv.: small & fine lettering, rev.: small & fine lettering. Mintage included above" - needs to be added

  - There are 3 major types of 1994, not 1. There should be added 2 more lines with 1994.

     - "obv.: small & fine lettering, rev.: large & coarse lettering" - already exists

     - "obv.: small & fine lettering, rev.: small & fine lettering. Mintage included above" - needs to be added

     - "obv.: large & coarse lettering, rev.: large & coarse lettering. Very rare. Mintage included above" - needs to be added

I hope I am requesting it correctly at the correct place.

If this page goes fine, I will then ask to modify other denominations.

Thank you for your time!

You have to back that up with some very clear illustrations. Words alone are not good enough. Make sure, that the variants can be found, even if you have only ONE coin in front of you, which is most of the cases.

The augmentation of year lines is normally not a very good idea, since collectors not interested in variant, will just add their doubles in one out of the many lines, and you end up swapping for wrong coins because of that, so please keep it simple, stupid and clear!

Look at this and see, if you can follow it? I made it and I can't any more, although it was clear enough to me, when I set it up!

You see what I mean?

And this is lucky enough all, which was taken into account!

N#1475

I agree that there should just be an image and a note on the year line saying “Different variants, see comments." most collectors, including myself don't care about these minor lettering varieties.

Hello Ole!

Thank you for your message.

I see a lot of your work on so many pages with clarifying tables, and it is absolutely great and priceless. So, thank you for that.

I understand that a lot of people don't want to collect world coins by variety, and it can be overwhelming for some collectors. All I want is for the Numista catalog of Ukrainian coins to be consistent.

I see 3 options for it:

1. List only year lines, without any types

2. List only major types

3. List all types

I, and I think everyone else is against Option 3, as it will be simply enormous, complicated, and never complete. So, it leaves with options 1 & 2. I would support Option 2 but will agree with 1 if it is a choice of the majority.

But what happens now? Some pages list major varieties, and some list them but not all of them. Some list minor varieties as well. Some list even error or trial coins. And I want them all to be consistent.

Regarding 2 kopiikas.

N#2758

I personally have 4 types of 1993. I can provide the pictures, but you already made a nice table that has clear images, so I don't see a need to do it again. I just want to add 2 more additional major varieties to the 2 that exist there already. The same with 1994 that has 3 varieties.

If you think that those varieties should not be listed, I will agree with that, but then we need to delete the 2nd variety for 1993 as well to make it as simple as possible.

And 2 kopiikas page is a relatively easy fix.

Some other pages have a lot more major varieties and errors on the pages. We can look at 5 kopiikas quickly:

N#3104

- 1st line is an error coin. If we start listing all error types for each year, it will never end.

- Lines 4&5 list 2 trial coins of 1994. Again, if we start listing trial coins, it will go into hundreds

Another great example. There is this variety of incused tridents for 10, 25 & 50 kopiikas (the right picture below). It is mentioned in your table for 10 kopiikas, but does not have a line, and is not even mentioned for 25 & 50 kopiikas. I personally have 25 kopiikas of that type.

Is it a type that should be omitted, have its own line, or even a separate page like these?

N#11193

N#11194

N#319315 - again, a pattern coin of hundreds of others and the only one that made it to the Numista catalog.

And I can provide many more inconsistencies and suggestions. For some denominations I will try to make clear tables, some pages have already clear tables but just need additional lines, and some pages need the removal of the lines. And I am opened for discussion.

Thank you!

Well… I think the updates on the pages of Ukrainian circulating coins are not going anywhere.

Sent a note to the referee.

I vote for consistency. I agree that listing all types will blown up pages with complicated information that only a dozen of collectors need. Personally I don't collect varieties of circulating coins and it's hard for me to distinguish more than 2-3 variants of a coin.

I'm OK if someone who knows and collects them and refers to book like “ITK” or books of Maksym Zahreba “Coins of Ukraine. Catalogue” will do this work. 

If the author will be able to provide illustrations it would be perfect, but I realize that it's not easy to make nice photos and put some schemas with explanations. 

I believe, at least until we get better organization for varieties, that we should be inclusive within comments.