El Salvador 1986 5 centavos 4g, but it's not in the page it should be. [επιλυμένο]

I can not find this coin in the page: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces9705.html ;

It is my first post, so please teach me things. Thank you!

Hello and welcome to Numista!

This is the only 5 centavos 1986 coin in the Numista catalog.  N#4632

I can't explain the weight difference.

Thank you for your help. The modification required discussion in the forum, so I hope that somebody can notice this problem and modify the page because I think there is 1986, type 4 grams/each

.

4 grams or 3.49 grams?

Anyway, you can make this request directly. On the coin page click on Modify or add data on this page then add the weight info either in the comment section or the year line comments.  Explain your reasons in the Sources box at the bottom. The Change Request will go directly to the referee who will approve/reject the change or ask for more information.

I am less likely to modify a page if a coin is underweight, as it is usually just worn. I would be willing to consider it if others reported similar weights.

Let's see what others report for this coin.

Some_Nerd

I am less likely to modify a page if a coin is underweight, as it is usually just worn. 

My thought too but then I realized that would be 30% of the weight and, if due to wear, there wouldn't be any detail left.

Ole has 2. Maybe he could weight them.

SCWC shows 5 grams for KM# 149a (the link in the OP's post) and not 4 grams on the Numista coin page.

Thank you rsirian1 for your detailed explanation. I tried that before (report) but stop when I think that I have to have a post like in the forum to do that. For now, I will do it soon! I think the coin should be placed in the category of 4 grams, however, I can not find 1986 in it. The strange thing is that the coin is not so worn, but it only weighs around 3.5 grams. I hope that someone else have the coin can help me check it…

Feel free to submit a change request but the referee (Some_Nerd) has already weighed in.

My two coins:

vf- 3.42 g 22.95 mm 1.27 mm magnetic

vf   3.49 g 22.98 mm 1.25mm magnetic

No doubt the OP is right, SCWC and Numista are both wrong (copy - paste)

Then it should be changed and in the comments states that KM is wrong (maybe include a small hyperlink to this Thread as long as we don't have dedicated sourcing).

Sjoelund

My two coins:

 

vf- 3.42 g 22.95 mm 1.27 mm magnetic

vf   3.49 g 22.98 mm 1.25mm magnetic

 

No doubt the OP is right, SCWC and Numista are both wrong (copy - paste)

Thanks.

Are these both 1986?  Can you weigh your 1975?

Hi rsirian1, I also have 2 1975 5 centavos El Salvador coins, and the first one weighs 4.03 grams, and the second one is 3.79 grams. I think some think must be wrong with the original page (5 Centavos El Salvador 1975-1986), so I think it's better to wait for more expert members to notice this post and discuss it! I really appreciate your help!

km149    1975 xf- w 4.04 g 22.98 mm 1.43 mm magnetic

km149    1986 vf- w 3.42 g 22.95 mm 1.27 mm magnetic

km149    1986 vf  w 3.49 g 22.98 mm 1.25 mm magnetic

km149a  1976 xf  w 4.24 g 22.98 mm 1.49 mm magnetic

km149a  1984 vf  w 3.92 g 23.00 mm 1.34 mm magnetic

km149b  1977 vf  w 5.01 g 22.99 mm 1.84 mm non magnetic, the only one with the KM weight!

That's all I have, no doubles at all from El Salvador!

Thank you Sjoelund for your detailed statistics of the coins. Now I see it's a tough problem and required time to fix on Numista, I guess. So I think I would wait for rsirian1 and Some_Nerd feedback and report it later.

Hi,

looking into numista's 3 pages, it seems to me that the km149a and km149b already have been modified by somebody, so you just have to do the km149 (if you're faster than somebody) to change the weight of the coin.

Thank you, I sent the request and modify km149 to 4.0 grams. However, it is clear that some coin is around 3.5 grams, so I can not firmly think it's accurate at this time. I also sent the link to this discussion for verification. I hope that somebody can check and have a better source for this coin. I think this coin may have 2 types: 3.5 grams and ~4.0 grams.

Eric Huy

Thank you, I sent the request and modify km149 to 4.0 grams. However, it is clear that some coin is around 3.5 grams, so I can not firmly think it's accurate at this time. I also sent the link to this discussion for verification. I hope that somebody can check and have a better source for this coin. I think this coin may have 2 types: 3.5 grams and ~4.0 grams.

You might be right, so ask people to give the weights they have for each of the 3 years, I'm not the only one having the coins!

At the bottom of  N#4632 you find this

Just send a PM to each owner ans ask him about the dimensions and years he have, when he has a double he must normally also have one in his collection!

Sjoelund

You might be right, so ask people to give the weights they have for each of the 3 years, I'm not the only one having the coins!

Agreed, I need more data points in order to make a decision.

I think we're only having a problem with the km149 (1975 versus the two from the 80's), the two sub-types seem to ok already?

Thanks, Sjoelund and Some_Nerd,

I personally think this requirement required time and more effort than I expected. However, I really know that it is important to know exactly, to verify carefully the information before we can agree on the modification. I will try to contact some of the recently active members and Pm them and ask for help. I would gladly if someone can join and help me in this process, because I am really unfamiliar with this website, unfortunately.

I think the subtype for 1977 El Salvador is quite hard to believe information because it's 5.0 grams and most of the other varieties are not. I think I will try to arrange some time tomorrow to come to my local coin shop, and try to find the 1977 El Salvador 5 cent to weigh it.

Many thanks!

Please concentrate on the km419 without subnumber and specially the 1975. We might have to give the weight in EACH year line.

The subnumber ones are already OK in my opinion.

I think it’s best if the referee or other Numista team member goes about contacting individual members By PM. 

My guess is that after11 years the new mint had to procure planchets from another source and didn’t care they weighed slightly less. 

Hi Some_Nerd, in the meantime, I think I found another source that supports my claim:

https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/numiscorner/239/product/coin_el_salvador_5_centavos_1986__coppernickel_clad_steel_km149/1731779/Default.aspx from Numis Corner. 

I will contact other members soon for more detailed information after my trip to my coin shop tomorrow.

I would much rather hear from the Royal Dutch Mint directly. Does anyone have access to their report from 1986?

Some_Nerd

I would much rather hear from the Royal Dutch Mint directly. Does anyone have access to their report from 1986?

For the moment it's the weight difference between 1975 and the 1986 which is the problem, I thought we agreed on the weight of the 1986, so what is now in question is the 1975!

UPDATE: There is no El Salvador coin at my coin shop during my visit yesterday. I have asked a member of Reddit to weigh his/her 1977 el Salvador coin or more extra information. Will contact Numista members soon!

1975, I hope it will be helpful.

My coin collection coins comparing with the weight of the Ole ones:

km149    1975 w 3.93 g (OLE coin 4.04 g)

km149    1986 w 3.52 g (OLE coin 3.42 g and 3.49 g)

km149a  1976 w 4.31 g (OLE coin 4.24 g)

km149a  1984 w 4.03 g (OLE coin 3.92 g)

km149b  1977 w 5.07 g (OLE coin 5.01 g)

Average weights:

km149    1975 w 3.99 g 

km149    1986 w 3.48 g 

km149a  1976 w 4.28 g 

km149a  1984 w 3.98 g

km149b  1977 w 5.04 g 

oynbcn

My coin collection coins comparing with the weight of the Ole ones:

 

km149    1975 w 3.93 g (OLE coin 4.04 g)

km149    1986 w 3.52 g (OLE coin 3.42 g and 3.49 g)

km149a  1976 w 4.31 g (OLE coin 4.24 g)

km149a  1984 w 4.03 g (OLE coin 3.92 g)

km149b  1977 w 5.07 g (OLE coin 5.01 g)

 

Average weights:

 

km149    1975 w 3.99 g 

km149    1986 w 3.48 g 

km149a  1976 w 4.28 g 

km149a  1984 w 3.98 g

km149b  1977 w 5.04 g 

 

Thanks Oscar,

it confirms that we should have had 4 types, but since we cannot create new KM#, we'll just have to add the proper average weights in the year lines and figure out what to put in the “Features” in numista.

Let's see, if any other measurements will come.

Sjoelund

oynbcn

My coin collection coins comparing with the weight of the Ole ones:

 

km149    1975 w 3.93 g (OLE coin 4.04 g)

km149    1986 w 3.52 g (OLE coin 3.42 g and 3.49 g)

km149a  1976 w 4.31 g (OLE coin 4.24 g)

km149a  1984 w 4.03 g (OLE coin 3.92 g)

km149b  1977 w 5.07 g (OLE coin 5.01 g)

 

Average weights:

 

km149    1975 w 3.99 g 

km149    1986 w 3.48 g 

km149a  1976 w 4.28 g 

km149a  1984 w 3.98 g

km149b  1977 w 5.04 g 

 

Thanks Oscar,

it confirms that we should have had 4 types, but since we cannot create new KM#, we'll just have to add the proper average weights in the year lines and figure out what to put in the “Features” in numista.

 

Let's see, if any other measurements will come.

Agree. The current 5 g on the page for km149 is clearly wrong and the 1986 is clearly not 4 g.  I would change the features value to 4 g, add a year line comment for 1986, “weight 3.5 g” and add a general page comment, “SCWC lists this coin as weighing 5.00 g in error.”

So the OP (Eric Huy) knows, what he has to do. Don't forget to use this discussion (a link) in the Source section.

Thanks, Sjoelund
I hope that some other collectors I contacted yesterday can join and confirm their coin weight,

The more collectors confirm, the more evidence to prove that the claim is accurate.

P.S: One collector promised that will post the result tonight (US time), so I will gladly wait for more and more results!

Eric

Thank oynbcn for your detailed results on the many varieties of this coin!

We have a group of numismatic friends and I asked them to verify the weight of their KM 149 coins and they are willing to help us too.

 but for now this is the weightfor the ones I have ;

This KM149  1986

In NUMISTA and the catalog  says is 5  GRM

They both are wrong!!!

Carlos Cerrato

We have a group of numismatic friends and I asked them to verify the weight of their KM 149 coins and they are willing to help us too.

Sound great! I very much appreciate your help and your group's help. Can't wait for more and more weight statistics!

I know this error is something serious and required as much evidence as I can for the referee to check it, and I believe that by working together, we can even report and help fix the error in the Catalog!

Many thanks!

Eric

We can only fix the error in numista and not in SCWC, so the original question will certainly come up again, either here or in other coin-circles, since SCWC is the basis for our collections.

Hi all,

For the statistics just a bit more evidence from my collection:

Km# 149     1975    3,9 g

Km# 149a   1976    4, 3 g

Km# 149a   1977    4,9 g

Km# 149a   1984    3,9 g

Km# 149     1986     3,6 g

Regards

Christian

Thank you christianvl, for your detailed statistics. I very much appreciate your help. Your results also have strengthened my worries about the coin weight. I think many collectors confirmed the varies of the weight, this topic nearly comes to an end.

Hi Sjoelund, sadly your idea about changing the Catalog is true. I hope that whoever composes that Catalog has this coin statistic fixed in a future edition.

Eric

I'll direct Tom (Thomas Michael) to this thread, if he has the time and resources to change it in numismaster, we'll see.

Hi Some_Nerd, I think that I gathered much evidence as your request and many collectors had confirmed their results. I hope that you can check it out and help fix the page. Many thanks!

Hi Sjoelund, that's a great idea! I hope that in the near future, new collectors have not be confused by this incorrect information.

Hi Sjoelund, I've sent the modification request for a while (maybe a day), but it seems not already modified. Can you help me contact somebody who has the right to modify this page, please? Thank you!

Eric Huy

Hi Sjoelund, I've sent the modification request for a while (maybe a day), but it seems not already modified. Can you help me contact somebody who has the right to modify this page, please? Thank you!

Some referees are slower than others. Don't despair, I have had CR open for more than 3 months, it'll be validated some day!

Eric Huy

Can you help me contact somebody who has the right to modify this page, please? Thank you!

That would be Some_Nerd who I'm sure is well aware of this discussion.

Thank Sjoelund and rsirian1 for sharing your information, I hope that we can see the modification soon!

Hi Some_Nerd, can you have me solve this problem because it had been so long time and there are many pieces of evidence shown in this post? I hope that you can help with this case. Many thanks!

Eric

Y6ou should have sent that message as a pm to Some_Nerd with a link to this thread.

Thank you Sjoelund! I will pm Some_Nerd right know.

So thanks to this post for the last few weeks I have revised my organizational notes for El Salvador and opened three questions:

1. This topic, KM#179 and 179a - basically each year is different
2. Composition of coins from 1952, 1977 and 1985
3. Will examine further when we finish 2) - there might be a possibility that post 1987 coins are the all the same, nickel plated steel. Hopefully in the meantime I will get some further info from Salvadorean numismatists.

I will also add some varieties in the next days on the types pages where they are missing.

Point 1 is already solved there. I can add a few weights from my collection (in bold) and from some online sites where it was specified (although often dealers specify wrong ones in a hurry of course). In numismatic circles of El Salvador it is a known thing, however an author of the national overview got 1976 wrong. I have sent him a mail so we will find out more I guess.

1975 4.03; 4.02, 4.06
1986 3.58, 3.61, 3.51

1976 4.31, 4.28 (5.68  on numiscorner is absoulutely an error for instance)
1984 4.00

I would boldy say weights for KM#149 are 4 and 3.5g respectively and for 149a 4.3 and 4g. Can we add that to the yearlines please? It will help collectors decide on and be aware of this.

Edit: In the aformentioned overview weights listed are:
1975 4.0
1984 4.0
1986 3.57

more data:
KM#149

1975 VF 4.045

1975 F 3.925

1986 VF 3.522

KM#149a

1984 VF 3.999

 Thank you gyoschak. This just confirms the found weights. It is known to local collectors that they are different.

Hi all, just reading this post as I am new on Numista. I will add the weight of my coins as statistic data to confirm the mistakes on WC. 

What is more important is that I came here after that, in the most important Italian coin forum, emerged the same problem for 10 centavos 1975 underweight (5g instead of 7g).

I requested the change in its Numista page but it seems it was ignored, probably because was missing a discussion like this before. 

Any interest in checking the mistake for 1975 10 centavos? If yes should we open a new discussion to do it? 

Regards, 

Dario

Darioelle

Hi all, just reading this post as I am new on Numista. I will add the weight of my coins as statistic data to confirm the mistakes on WC. 

What is more important is that I came here after that, in the most important Italian coin forum, emerged the same problem for 10 centavos 1975 underweight (5g instead of 7g).

I requested the change in its Numista page but it seems it was ignored, probably because was missing a discussion like this before. 

Any interest in checking the mistake for 1975 10 centavos? If yes should we open a new discussion to do it? 

Regards, 

Dario

This coin? N#10289 There are no forum posts by you discussing this coin. If you meant you submitted a change request it can't be ignored.  It can only be Validated, Pending, Rejected or waiting for you to respond to a question asked.  Is it still in your Requests list? https://en.numista.com/catalogue/contributions/liste_demandes.php

Regardless, the weight in Numista is incorrect

 and probably came from SCWC.

Start a new post. This post is DONE.

Hi, 

yes the coins is El Salvador 10 centavos KM150 and its weight is wrong in W.C. but the Numista page N#10289

still reports 7 g, I checked my modification request and it results pending, please consider that mine weighs 5,00 g and another collector reports his coin as weighing 4, 97 g.

Adding my datas for 5 centavos I can say that:

El Salvador KM134 1974 4,89 g XF

El Salvador KM134a 1944 4,86 g F

El Salvador KM149 1975 3,83 g F+

El Salvador KM149a 1976 4,26 g VF+

El Salvador KM149b 1977 4,92 g VG+

I hope all this helps,

Dario

That's another nice discovery. It does not change the number of different coin types but the weight is incorrect for sure.

5 centavos is more or less done with - thank you for confirming Dario. 

 

Edit: Figured out, not done with. Yearlines need to be updated with weights here on numista

Hi Natbaj, 

as regards 5 centavos I would put my attention on 5 centavos 1976 KM149a: while 1984 one seems weigh 4 g (as reported in the features summary up in the right of the page), for 1976 a correct weight seems to be 4,3 g and this needs to be put in its year line if you agree.

As regards KM149 1975 weighs 4 g as reported in the features summary up in the right of the page, but 1986 weighs 3,6g , also this variation should be put in its year line.

Finally KM149b 1977 weighs 5g and not 4 g as reported in Numista page.

As regards 10 centavos we can start a new discussion or adjust fastly here…

That is correct. I proposed earlier to add to the yearlines:
KM#149:
1975 4g
1986 3.5g

KM#149a
1976 4.3g
1984 4g

As regards 1986, reading the previous posts I can read some weights such as: 3,52 3,56, 3,58 3,60 g

in my opinion 3,6 g would be correct for a UNC grade

Darioelle

yes the coins is El Salvador 10 centavos KM150 and its weight is wrong in W.C. but the Numista page N#10289

still reports 7 g, I checked my modification request and it results pending, please consider that mine weighs 5,00 g and another collector reports his coin as weighing 4, 97 g.

More data for KM#150

Brilliant UNC: 5.025g