Australia 2020 [επιλυμένο]

Hello,

a question for those from "down under": how do you distinguish between these, if you don't have their birth certificate?

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces175061.html

You cannot, that kind of year lines are only good, if you have the coin in the original paper or whatever it's called. Anyway I find all those different wrappings of a coin shouldn't be allowed in numista.... just my opinion.

My opinion too. It's always the same coin, only the package is different. In stead of a coin catalog it becomes a package catalog. In stead of 8 year lines for 2020 there should only be 2 (the proof and the regular). All the other stuff belongs in the comment sector, not in the year lines. Just my opinion.

Thank you, Essor Prof and Sjoelund.
I share your views: where would we be if we start cataloguing one and the same coin by it's source!

Well seeing as the OP question was for those from "down under" maybe I should reply. But thankyou to the gentlemen who were not from "down under" for providing us with their opinion.

Quite simple really, we like to know about the separate issues of our coins and mintages in those releases.

I get requests from Australian members all the time to include various releases of coins. In Rolls, In PNC's, in Sets, in Coincards etc.

We like to see as much information about the coin as possible, and we like to list our coins in Numista that way too.

But the bit about your question I don't understand is this part ..... "how do you distinguish between these, if you don't have their birth certificate?"



What do you mean by that? Do coins have birth certificates?

The image you put up just shows the Mintage lines for Australian 20 cent coins issued in 2020. ie.

There were 1,500 in the RAM Legends 6 Coin Set.
There were 13,751 in the Possum Magic Baby Set.
There were 1,250 in the Berlin WMF 6 Coin Set
There were 38,202 in the UNC Year Set

Those numbers are straight from the Royal Australian Mint page that lists coin mintages. They show them separately.
https://www.ramint.gov.au/annual-reports

But Circulation mintage is not known yet so that line has a blank number for the moment. We will find that out in October this year.

So maybe that is what you mean by "birth certificate" ... Just go to the Royal Australian Mint website. Perth Mint has the same thing too.

Happy collecting - Mike

Απόσπασμα: "brismike"​Quite simple really, we like to know about the separate issues of our coins and mintages in those releases.

​Quite simple really, put all that information in the comments sector. Your Australian friends will be happy and our coin catalog stays a coin catalog in stead of a packaging catalog.
Don't misunderstand me, there is room for all this information on our coin sheets but not in separate year lines for the same coin each time.

Απόσπασμα: "Essor Prof"​

Απόσπασμα: "brismike"​Quite simple really, we like to know about the separate issues of our coins and mintages in those releases.
​
​

​​Quite simple really, put all that information in the comments sector. Your Australian friends will be happy and our coin catalog stays a coin catalog in stead of a packaging catalog.
​Don't misunderstand me, there is room for all this information on our coin sheets but not in separate year lines for the same coin each time.

​No thanks - We prefer it the way it is.

If the information on separate issues/releases only went into the comments section it would get lost. Placed in the mintage lines it is easy to find, in the correct order and more pleasing to the eye.

Cheers - Mike

Απόσπασμα: "Essor Prof"​

Απόσπασμα: "brismike"​Quite simple really, we like to know about the separate issues of our coins and mintages in those releases.
​
​

​​Quite simple really, put all that information in the comments sector. Your Australian friends will be happy and our coin catalog stays a coin catalog in stead of a packaging catalog.
​Don't misunderstand me, there is room for all this information on our coin sheets but not in separate year lines for the same coin each time.

​I agree, it's cluttering the year lines, use the comments for that, please.

Hi, I would like to give an opinion on this topic. As a collector of Australian coins (over 9000 in my collection in Numista) I think think that Numista should be thought of as a resource. When values were introduced into the site, Numista could no longer be just a catalog.
I prefer to have separate lines for packaging, for example, with PNCs as they would markedly skew the values if included with a single line. I'm thinking of 2020 ANDA limited PNC releases as a case in point. Yes, these coins are for the most part non-circulating coins but the same idea applies to circulating commemorative coins and standard circulating coins. Of course once a circulating coin has been removed from its packaging it reverts to face value or a value based on grading and mintage.
I realise that the values are only rough estimates but they are a good first estimate when preparing for bidding at auctions, so I'm using Numista as a resource when I do this.
I completely support the use of lines to describe commercial packaging as well as mint packaging. I think it's not overwhelming for the referees as there is really only one commercial issuer (Downies) (there used to be more), a Government issuer (Australia Post) and two mints (only the RAM produces circulating currency).

Thanks,
Serverlan

Απόσπασμα: "Sjoelund"

Απόσπασμα​
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​​I agree, it's cluttering the year lines, use the comments for that, please.

​Well I am very sorry but I have to disagree with you .. I don't think of it as cluttering the year lines, more as actually making them more meaningful and a valuable source of information that would be lost entirely if it were placed into comments. We already place plenty of information into the comments on Australian coins.

This is the way that we like to do it here in Australia. I have said it before, we are very different to you uptoppers, remember we are upside down , we have animals on our coat of Arms that can't walk backwards, we like vegemite, we play football on big oval fields that is a cross between soccer and rugby, we have 9 of the 10 most poisonous snakes on the planet, we have a glorious hot summer when you are freezing to death, we have spiders bigger than the plate you ate your dinner from, and we like our coins on Numista just the way they are.

So lets agree to disagree in a friendly way shall we.

I know your beautiful country having been there twice, in 1977 for 6 months in the full monetary change, so I got out with some kilos of the silver coins, then still used and available in bankrolls mixed with the new coins.... I came back for another 3 months in 1988, but from a coin viewpoint, that was not very interesting.

Your steaks and wine were very good at both my visits to Melbourne!

OK, I give in to your upside down arguments.



Did you know the 3 variants of the IRB? I always thought it was only 2, but today I got the spaced and the complety joined, so I took the opportunity to make a documentation of them.

Take care

My opinion is that one coin is not different from another because it is in Sets, coincards, rolls or in the supermarket change (unless it has some detail that makes them different varieties, such as legends, mint marks, etc) and each coin should have a single line in the catalog (separate line for proof quality or something that indicates a different variety)

If I mark a circulation coin in my collection and the same one in Set, in "my coins" it will indicate two different coins: that is an error, it is the same coin twice. Another problem is when you do swaps: if I have a coin entered in the "In sets only" line and someone has the same coin in circulation in his swap list, in the swap it tells me that I don't have that coin ... when I do. So, I have to always review each coin that I choose in each swap, to make sure that I really lack.

Regards, Oscar

If we follow this line, there will be thousands of additions to the catalogue, as each country's mint publishes several booklets with coins each year. That will overburden the (currently) easy to use and comprehensive catalogue. When you buy a bottle of your favourite beer, does it matter in what package it came?

Although I'll have promised to stay out of this discussion I would like to know, who decided the topic is solved???

In set only should only be in the year comment for years that you can get, as it says' only in sets because non were minted for general circulation.
Also the Australia section had it always with double listing coins see the proclamation coinage.

Απόσπασμα: "Sjoelund"​
​Did you know the 3 variants of the IRB? I always thought it was only 2, but today I got the spaced and the complety joined, so I took the opportunity to make a documentation of them.
​
​Take care

​Hi Yes I was aware of the IRB variants and a good example of them can be found on the 2001 Centenary of Federation dollar.

Joined IRB


Spaced IRB


This issue with the IRB initials can be found on lots of other Australian coins too. Thanks for adding that graphic on the 5 cent coin.

Mike

In the New Zealand section the same problem exists with cluttered year lines:

Look here https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces5215.html and the here, where I have a 1978 and 1980 coin, which I can enter correctly, since there is NO YEAR LINE for coins not in coloured sets!!!!


I'll make CR for adding the missing year lines to clutter numista even more. At least I can then enter my coins like normal!

Ole

Απόσπασμα: "Sjoelund"​In the New Zealand section the same problem exists with cluttered year lines:
​
​Look here https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces5215.html and the here, where I have a 1978 and 1980 coin, which I can enter correctly, since there is NO YEAR LINE for coins not in coloured sets!!!!
​
​
​I'll make CR for adding the missing year lines to clutter numista even more. At least I can then enter my coins like normal!
​
​Ole

​Sorry Ole I don't follow what you mean?

This coin has 2 lines for 1978, the BU Year set and the Proof Year Set (No Circulation coins in 1978)
This coin has 3 lines for 1980, the BU Year set and the Proof Year set + the line for Circulation coins.

And what do you mean by "CR for adding missing year lines to clutter numista even more"?

Mike

Hi Mike,

you're right about 1980, but the 1978 I have is not in any package at all, and there is no line for circulation! I don't know, if mine has circulated, it doesn't really look like it, but I can not know in which year line to put it, so what do you suggest? It can NOT go into any of the two lines already there, so it has to have a new line.

Right again, CR (Change Requests) cannot be made for year lines.

Cluttering is when collectors up north cannot add their coins to numista, but I have given in to you southeners, because that's how you collect.... but please allow me to add my coins in a proper year line for my down under coins, when not in any sets

Take care
Ole

The New Zealand 2 cent coin was not released into circulation in 1978. It was only issued in the Year BU set and the Year Proof Set in that year.

It seems you have got a NCLT coin that has escaped one of the sets. If it looks like a proof (frosted effigy) then put it in the proof line.

If it does not look like a proof it probably came out of the BU Year Set.

Regards Mike

This is a proof NZ 2 cent


This is a BU NZ 2 cent


You can find them for sale on ebay.au ... People do break the sets up. That must have happened with your 1978 coin.

Mike

That doesn't make me any happier, it's going to be guess work. And if the coin had really been in circulation your two images doen't help at all.

Here are my images taking under my lightning conditions!



Your guess or mine to make the catalog "guess worthy"?

A very similar situation could occur with a Slovenia 2 euro cent coin from any of the years it was only issued in a BU or Proof Set.

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces237.html

If one of those escaped into circulation and a Numista member found one in change should we create a line for circulation coins for the year it came from? I think not.

Another similar situation has happened to the Australian $1 Mob of Roos coin from 2007. It never was released into circulation. It was only issued in the UNC Year Set (BU), Proof Year Set, an Australia Post PNC, The Baby Proof Set and the Specimen Wedding Set. We have year lines with mintages for all of those lines because we know what the individual mintages were for those releases. However some 2007 MOR's have been found in circulation. They obviously escaped most likely from the PNC issue because stamp collectors often break PNC's up and spend the coins.

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces3148.html

What I would do if I got one of these coins is put it on the most likely year line with a personal or public comment "Escaped into Circulation" similar how I have done so with a 1995 B Mintmark Banjo Paterson $1 NCLT coin I found in circulation. See this image.



I think your NZ Coin looks more like a BU than a proof coin.

Regards Mike