Απόσπασμα: "harryg"They are legal tender and can be used for purchases if one chooses to do so.
Interesting. How can a gold coin of 50$ nominal value, worth almost 2000 US$ melt, be used in a grocery shop?
If somebody wants to spend that $50 coin in my shop they are welcome to. But you used an extreme example to make a point. The overwhelming majority of non circulating coins are not made of precious metals.
Someone used a silver Ike dollar to buy a mini of vodka at my store once, I doubt he knew it was silver. Also had someone use 3 Morgan dollars for a half pint of vodka, and he did know what they were worth. He came back a week later and ask if we still had them, I told him I had taken them home. He said he was happy that someone who appreciated them was keeping them.
Coin: noun.
1. a piece of metal stamped and issued by the authority of a government for use as money.
2. a number of such pieces.
3. Informal. money; cash: He's got plenty of coin in the bank.
Note the "for use as money".
Money: noun.
1. any circulating medium of exchange, including coins, paper money, and demand deposits.
2. paper money.
3. gold, silver, or other metal in pieces of convenient form stamped by public authority and issued as a medium of exchange and measure of value.
4. any article or substance used as a medium of exchange, measure of wealth, or means of payment, as checks on demand deposit or cowrie.
(Press "see more" for more definitions that I don't think affect my argument.)
Since NCLT aren't issued for use a medium of exchange (the nominal value is incidental) I don't think they meet that definition of "coin".
But they are included in many "coin catalogs" and are collected by many people calling themselves "coin collectors".
Απόσπασμα: "bjherbison"Looking at dictionary.com:
Since NCLT aren't issued for use a medium of exchange (the nominal value is incidental) I don't think they meet that definition of "coin".
Central Banks keep the balance of how much money is in circulation, both coins and paper money.
When a mint has pressed an image on a piece of metal, it is still just a piece of metal which is strikingly similar to a coin. Only after the Central Bank 'monetized' the batch (i.e. put it on their balance as 'money') does it become money and can it be released into circulation (by other banks or cash distributors, who have to 'buy' the cash from the Central Bank).
Although not intended for circulation, NCLT issues are indeed monetized, and are on the balance of the Central Banks as 'money'. The mints have to pay the Central Bank, in order to sell them as NCLT. This puts pressure on the profits that mints make on NCLT.
Απόσπασμα: "bjherbison"Looking at dictionary.com:
Coin: noun.
a piece of metal stamped and issued by the authority of a government for use as money.
Since NCLT aren't issued for use a medium of exchange (the nominal value is incidental) I don't think they meet that definition of "coin".
Looking at dictionary.cambridge.org
Coin: noun
a small, round piece of metal, usually silver or copper coloured, that is used as money
Since squared, scalloped, pentagonal, hexagonal, heptagonal, octagonal pieces of metal aren't round, I don't think they meet that definition of "coin".
Since old crown sized pieces of metal aren't small, I don't think they meet that definition of "coin"
You see, depending on the source, you can endlessly discussing and when you search long enough you'll always find a source that fits your purpose.
You don't have to like them, you don't have to collect them, but NCLT's are coins.
Απόσπασμα: "Essor Prof"Looking at dictionary.cambridge.org
Coin: noun
a small, round piece of metal, usually silver or copper coloured, that is used as money
You found a worse definition. Have you found a better one?
Απόσπασμα: "ciscoins"Once I wrote an article on this topic. Sorry for my bad English, originally it was written in Russian.
http://ciscoins.net/cis/enarticles.htm
“A small piece of metal, usually flat and circular, authorized by a government for use as money.”
“A small piece of metal”. this is a bit tricky. When does ‘small’ become ‘large’? That’s completely subjective, but in my opinion, crown-sized coins are still ‘small’ relative to a human and can easily fit in one’s palm or be carried in one’s pocket, so they’re still coins to me. Now if Canada’s infamous 1,000,000 dollar gold coin (https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces23218.html) counts as a coin, that’s a different story. I would classify it as legal tender bullion.
“usually flat and circular”. Coins with multiple sides (or theoretically spherical coins) are still coins.
“authorised by a government”. Tokens, counterfeits and fantasy releases are not and never will be coins. Some fantasy releases may be authorised by a ‘government’ (such as Sealand or the late Hutt River) and carry a face value, but they are still effectively tokens. They can still be called ‘coins’ colloquially, but are technically not.
“for use as money”. It gets really subjective here. A non-circulating coin can technically be spent, but it is not issued with that purpose in mind. You would be foolish to spend one. So is it authorised for use as money? Personally I would call them coins, as they are technically able to be used as money, even if they never are.
But where it gets interesting for me is demonetised coins. Let’s take two examples, a Roman follis and an old round £1 coin.
“authorised by a government”. In the case of the follis, one that no longer exists.
“for use as money”. In the case of the old £1, that is no longer the case. They can be redeemed, but so can many tokens (which are obviously not coins).
I would still classify them as coins, for they once served that purpose, even if they don’t anymore. It’s an interesting debate.
Απόσπασμα: "bjherbison"Looking at dictionary.com:
Coin: noun.
a piece of metal stamped and issued by the authority of a government for use as money.
Since NCLT aren't issued for use a medium of exchange (the nominal value is incidental) I don't think they meet that definition of "coin".
Looking at dictionary.cambridge.org
Coin: noun
a small, round piece of metal, usually silver or copper coloured, that is used as money
Since squared, scalloped, pentagonal, hexagonal, heptagonal, octagonal pieces of metal aren't round, I don't think they meet that definition of "coin".
Since old crown sized pieces of metal aren't small, I don't think they meet that definition of "coin"
You see, depending on the source, you can endlessly discussing and when you search long enough you'll always find a source that fits your purpose.
You don't have to like them, you don't have to collect them, but NCLT's are coins.
The argument falls apart though. A non-circulating Britannia is a coin, but a commonly circulating 50p is not? Also keep in mind that NCLTs often come in extremely weird shapes.
This is a Non Circulating $1 Australian Coin. (NCLT)
Both coins are the same weight, same size, same metal.
The first one was released into circulation by the millions.
The second one was only available in a coincard by stamping it yourself at the Royal Australian Mint (105,090 minted) or by stamping it on a mobile press at the Sydney (74,474 minted) or Melbourne (79,256 minted) Royal shows in 1994.
The Royal Australian Mint has made very many different types of these $1 NCLT coins since the first one was issued in 1992, approximately 251 of them. Every single one of them was made in standard size, weight and metal as the $1 circulating coin.
Some of them are very rare and fetch prices up to $1,000 and others can be picked up very cheap for $2 or $3. Lots of them do find their way into circulation and, If you are very lucky, you will very occasionally find them that way.
So NCLT? .. They are still coins to me.
Mike
ps - That NCLT coin above is the "Dollar Decade" commemorative release. It depicts a $1 note morphing into a $1 coin. It was released 10 years since the Dollar Note was withdrawn from use in 1984 and the Dollar coin was intoduced. Quite an interesting design. https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces1127.html
Master Referee - See my profile for what I collect.
How Proof, NCLT, and other valuable coins frequently get into circulation:
From 1985 to 2020 my wife and I operated a large vending machine business, gumballs, small toys, etc. Over those 35 years the machines received possibly a hundred, or so, assorted US proof coins, at least 2 Canadian proof Quarters, plus well over a hundred dollars of silver coins, too. Seldom, if ever, do the owners of coins which are worth considerably more than face value intentionately spend them; more often it's the B&E person, or the child who found dad's stash and helped themselves to it.
Απόσπασμα: "brismike"This is a Circulating $1 Australian Coin.
This is a Non Circulating $1 Australian Coin. (NCLT)
Both coins are the same weight, same size, same metal.
The first one was released into circulation by the millions.
The second one was only available in a coincard by stamping it yourself at the Royal Australian Mint (105,090 minted) or by stamping it on a mobile press at the Sydney (74,474 minted) or Melbourne (79,256 minted) Royal shows in 1994.
The Royal Australian Mint has made very many different types of these $1 NCLT coins since the first one was issued in 1992, approximately 251 of them. Every single one of them was made in standard size, weight and metal as the $1 circulating coin.
Some of them are very rare and fetch prices up to $1,000 and others can be picked up very cheap for $2 or $3. Lots of them do find their way into circulation and, If you are very lucky, you will very occasionally find them that way.
So NCLT? .. They are still coins to me.
Mike
ps - That NCLT coin above is the "Dollar Decade" commemorative release. It depicts a $1 note morphing into a $1 coin. It was released 10 years since the Dollar Note was withdrawn from use in 1984 and the Dollar coin was intoduced. Quite an interesting design. https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces1127.html
When I was in Sydney for the 2004 grand final I was given the non circulating dollar in my change at the East’s leagues club.
When I was in Sydney for the 2004 grand final I was given the non circulating dollar in my change at the East’s leagues club.
Yes, that is the beauty of Australian NCLT coins that the RAM produces that are the same size and denomination as circulating types. You never know when you will actually find one in circulation. Over the last 20 years I have found at least 15 or 20 that way.
Cheers Mike
Master Referee - See my profile for what I collect.
I was like a child change checking, what an amazing wealth of coins there are circulating in Australia. It fuelled my love of Aussie coins which I still have today
Even here in New Zealand, I have found a few of the Australian medal-coins in bulk lots of Australian currency coins - mostly the 1 Dollar, but I have pulled out at least 1 of the 20 Cents as well.
It doesn't surprise me, considering I help out a coin dealer on a part-time basis.
